sect demands biblical proof
stephen bates, religious affairs correspondent.
guardian .
Hello Blackcat,
thanks for giving us this precious information.
Stephen Bates again, is doing an excellent job,
to publicize this kind "of stuff " in Europe.
I'll e-mail him personally. After writing about the
U.N. affais and the WBTS Inc., here we go again...!
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
i would like to share with you some
interesting - criticism toward all
' other religions' made , as usual,by the wbts inc., including some of their
Hello Itsjustlittleoldme and Lizardsnot,
Quotes are straight from the referred publications...part of them,
for the sake of space and clarity.
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
i would like to share with you some
interesting - criticism toward all
' other religions' made , as usual,by the wbts inc., including some of their
Hello everyone,
I would like to share with you some
interesting - criticism toward all
' other religions' made , as usual,by the WBTS Inc., including some of their
own claims:
*** w54 6/1 325-8 Pride Destroys, Meekness Saves ***
Many persons are proud but few will admit it. They will make the general admission that they make mistakes, knowing how conceited they would appear if they claimed infallibility. But to make them acknowledge a specific wrong is far more difficult.
and this:
"Be assured that if they knew their religions doctrines and could support them Scripturally they would not remain mute to spare emotions. "
Intelligent religious discussion, based on Jehovahs Word, is vital.
If the mind is open, not sealed off by prejudice; if reason has full play, not killed by foolish pride; if the Bible is taken as the authority, not nullified by human creedal traditions, then emotion remains subordinate to logic and correct conclusions based on the Bible will be the result."
There is more;
"Many questioned him in meekness to learn, but the proud ones stopped their antagonistic questioning after learning it backfired on them, to the injury of their pride.
They were not interested in learning the truth; they only wanted to win an argument. If they could not defend their belief they would not discuss their belief."
And also this:
"They could not hear the truth and refute it, they refused to hear it and accept it, so they stopped their ears against it and killed the one preaching it.
So it is now. The proud argue with open mouth and closed mind."
And what about this part? :
"The proud are cocksure, convinced they are right, unwilling to consider contrary views.
Refusing to think they might be wrong, they direct all their thinking toward justifying themselves rather than examining themselves.
What supports their side they gullibly grab, what opposes their position they arbitrarily reject."
Let's read just a bit more:
"Disgrace comes when they are proved wrong, though even then pride may harden them till they refuse to face the disgrace and change.
And when this pride is exercised relative to choosing the right religion, and erring proud ones refuse to reason, destruction follows.
Their pride brings blindness, blindness to reason."
Now, can we see how the WBTS Inc.
Measure up to its own written claims?
Here some examples:
I) *** w52 9/1 541-2 A Witness Replies to a Clergyman ***
The powers ordained of God mentioned in Romans 13:1-4 are not the political powers of this world, but rather the authorities within the organization of the true church. "
Just two weeks later , an other watchtower article stated:
*** w52 9/15 576 Questions from Readers
"The Bible is filled with inspired texts that expose as false her doctrines and practices, and we wish to use such truths to fight falsehood, not becoming falsifiers ourselves. "
II) From the book ' Vindication ' I, (1938) page 338:
There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1914, 1918, & 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time.... and they also learned to quit fixing dates.
but two years later:
From 'The Watchtower, September 1, 1940, page 265:
What, then, does it mean that the theocratic governments now suppressed in many nations? It means that the hour is rapidly approaching when the "sign" of Armageddon will be clearly revealed and all who are on the side of Jehovah will see and appreciate it.
and 4 years later:
From 'The Watchtower' September 15, 1941 page 288 ;
Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon.
III) *** w68 5/1 274 Making Wise Use of the Remaining Time ***
"Now, if such was true in Pauls day, how much more so is it true in our day! By measuring and calculating time, we know we are living in the final years of this system of things. It is crumbling before our very eyes in one orgy of violence and crime after another. Minute by minute, day by day, year by year it moves without fail toward its catastrophic end. "
More than 30 years later:
*** w98 9/15 18 Waiting in "Eager Expectation" ***
[Picture on page 18]
"The anointed remnant keep busy in Jehovahs service, not basing their faith on time calculations "
*** w98 9/15 15 Times and Seasons in Jehovah's Hands ***
"Our conviction that we are living in the time of the end and that our deliverance is drawing near depends, not merely on chronological computation, but on real-life events in fulfillment of Bible prophecies. "
IV)From ' The Watchtower January 1, 2000 page 9 :
God's Word, the Holy Bible , must be the sole basis of the Christian's faith and way of life. (Isaiah 8:19,20; Romans 15:4) It is wrong to add to God's Word or take anything away from it.- Deuteronomy 4:2; Revelation 22:18,19 "
V) From 'The Watchtower' November 1, 1995 page 18:
"Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah's people have at times speculated about the time when the "great tribulation" would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914.
However, we bring a heart of wisdom in," not by speculating about how many years or days makeup a generation, but by thinking about how we "count our days" in bringing joyful praise to Jehovah."
VI) From 'The Watchtower ' November 1, 1995 page 20:
"Does our more precise viewpoint on "this generation" mean that Armageddon is further away than we had thought? Not at all! Though we at no time have known the "day and hour," Jehovah God has always known it, and he does not change."
VII) *** w87 3/1 12-13 'Upon the Watchtower I Am Standing' ***
"Likewise today, the watchman class has exerted itself by searching through the Scriptures to see what Jehovah has in store for this system of things. (James 1:25)
This watchman then calls out that message loudly and fearlessly, principally through the pages of The Watchtower. (Compare Amos 3:4, 8.)
This magazine will never shrink in fear from championing the truth!Isaiah 43:9, 10."
VIII) *** w87 3/1 15 'Upon the Watchtower I Am Standing' ***
18 To this day the Governing Body follows similar guidelines. Each article in both The Watchtower and Awake! and every page, including the artwork, is scrutinized by selected members of the Governing Body before it is printed.
Furthermore, those who assist in writing articles for The Watchtower are Christian elders who appreciate the seriousness of their assignment. (Compare 2 Chronicles 19:7.)
They spend many hours in researching the Bible and other reference material to make sure that what is written is the truth and that it faithfully follows the Scriptures.
(Ecclesiastes 12:9, 10; 2 Timothy 1:13) It is not unusual for one magazine articlethat you may read in 15 minutesto take from two weeks to over a month to prepare."
IX) From 'The Watchtower ' October,15 1954 pages 638-9 Questions from Readers ***
" How does Jehovahs spirit help the faithful and discreet slave arrive at the truth of a matter? The Society does not claim infallibility or inspiration. How much is dependent upon the written Word? How can we be sure that this is the organization Jehovah is using when some things are published and later changed?C. P., United States."
Let's take some of the best statements:
a) "Full dependence is placed upon Jehovahs Word in the formulation of truth and it is from his Word that proof should be forthcoming. However, with greater clarity and understanding, new truths are discerned and something that previously appeared very logical may require revision."
b) "This is a progressive process, food being continually provided, and as we advance in the stream of time and observe further fulfillment of prophecy new truths are discerned and brought forth and constitute fresh and nourishing food for our day.
Some truths were not essential for us prior to the time of their discernment, otherwise Jehovah would have caused them to become known earlier."
c) "We are counseled to remain close to the organization, for even if the organization does have views that are later changed, our safety lies in remaining within the organization and changing with it when the light increases and new truths are discerned."
d) "With Jehovahs organization the beliefs can be established from the Bible, and when some erroneous view does creep in it is soon ferreted out and discarded."
e) "When it can be clearly shown from the Bible that an idea once held does not have sufficient Scriptural support and that a different viewpoint has the weight of Bible testimony behind it, then the new viewpoint is adopted and the former understanding is set aside. "
f) "This organization is always probing and studying to find solid foundations in the Scriptures for its beliefs and as the light increases the foundations of our beliefs become stronger and stronger.
g) "It is this organization that is enjoying that fulfillment and it is through this organization that Jehovah sends further light and spiritual food that rectifies any erroneous conceptions previously entertained, as well as adding to the rich storehouse of spiritual food available for those devoted to him and willing to exert themselves in his service by telling it to others."
X) Let's see Awake! The masthead before the date - November 8th 1995 :
"Why AWAKE! Is Published
Awake! is published for the enlightenment of the entire family. It shows how to cope with today's problems. It reports the news, tells about people in many lands, examines religion and science. But it does more. It probes beneath the surface and points to the real meaning behind current events, yet it always stays politically neutral and does not exalt one race above another. Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away."
And now let's see Awake! The masthead after the date November 8th 1995 :
"Why AWAKE! Is Published
Awake! is published for the enlightenment of the entire family. It shows how to cope with today's problems. It reports the news, tells about people in many lands, examines religion and science. But it does more. It probes beneath the surface and points to the real meaning behind current events, yet it always stays politically neutral and does not exalt one race above another. Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things."
Compare with this one:
From the book Isaiahs prophecy Light for all mankind !
Subheading No help from this world page 320, paragraph 9 :
(published in the year 2000 by the WBTS Inc.)
Human promises are notoriously unreliable, and human protection
is uncertain. Jehovah , on the other hand, does not need to call back
his own words. He will without fail do what he promises. His word does not
return to him without result.- Isaiah 55 :10,11 ; 14 :24.
(This part was for the book study, scheduled for the week beginning
June 10th 2002).
Lets ask once again... The proud are cocksure ..? Who are they?
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
just a simple question.
why the " r&f" of the jw's have
not been told, informed through
Hello everyone,
Just a simple question.
Why the " R&F" of the JW's have
not been told, informed through
the pages of the publications,
the names and the persons
responsibles for the newly formed
- end of the year 2000 -
corporations, associations etc.?
Why such a ' secrecy'?
Btw, according to the latest informations
here they are:
1****
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania (Incorporated 1884)
President Don A. Adams
Vice Presidents Robert W. Wallen, William F. Malenfant
Secretary/Treasurer Richard E. Abrahamson
Directors Danny L. Bland, Philip D. Wilcox, John N. Wischuk
2***Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. (Incorporated 1909)
President Max H. Larson
Vice Presidents George M. Couch, Lonnie R. Schilling
Secretary/Treasurer Gerald F. Simonis
Directors Gerald D. Grizzle, David G. Sinclair, Robert M. Pevy
3****Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses (Incorporated 2000)
President William L. Van De Wall
Vice Presidents Charles I. Woody, Leon Weaver, Jr.
Secretary/Treasurer William H. Nonkes
Directors Harold K. Jackson, Merton V. Campbell, Stanley F. Weigel
4****Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses (Incorporated 2000)
President Patrick J. LaFranca
Vice Presidents Peter D. Molchan, Ralph E. Walls
Secretary/Treasurer Joseph D. Mercante
Directors Marvin G. Smalley, Kenneth J. Pulcifer, Eugene D. Rosam, Jr.
5****Kingdom Support Services, Inc. (Incorporated 2000)
President Harold L. Corkern
Vice Presidents Alan D. Janzen, Robert L. Butler
Secretary/Treasurer Alexander W. Reinmueller
Directors James F. Mantz, Jr., Thomas Kalimeris, Alan G. Browning
6****Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New Jersey, Inc. (Incorporated 1955)
President Charles V. Molohan
Vice Presidents James L. Bauer, J. Richard Brown
Secretary/Treasurer Alan K. Flowers
Directors Allen E. Shuster, David L. Walker, Vernon C. Wisegarver
7****Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Florida, Inc. (Incorporated 1986)
President Leonard R. Pearson
Vice Presidents Alejandro G. Rodriguez, Maurice C. Turcot
Secretary/Treasurer Mark L. Questell
Directors Jim Moody, Sr., Anselm J. Packnett, Donald R. Krebs
8****Valley Farms Corporation (Incorporated 1987)
President Charles J. Rice
Vice Presidents Kent E. Fischer, Robert L. Rains
Secretary/Treasurer Albert L. Harrell
Directors John R. Strandberg, Samuel D. Buck, Louis A. Travis
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
pending tragedy for the wts and jws.
the heavy-handed tactics of the leaders of the watchtower society have begun to bear rotten fruit.
i suspect that it is just a matter of time before the need arises to coin some phrase to describe disfellowshipped or disassociated jehovah's witnesses who bomb conventions, shoot up kingdom halls or even attack bethel facilities.. leaders of the wts (and local elders) should stop and think about the lessons to be learned from columbine high school, the postal service (i.e.
Hello everyone ,
thanks to LeeElder for his topic. Personally I'm against
any kind of violence, as a solution even to a serious problem.
The best way to deal with the WTBS Inc. is to uncover her
lies and hipocrisy.
To Pathothorns:
"I would say most people calling for reform openly no longer have their hearts in this religion and really are not seeking reform at all but the destruction of this religion. Most JW's are aware there are problems but most still are ignorant of where the particular problems lie."
Excellent and truthful comment!
LeeElder: I do agree with this comparison:
"While they don't literally kill you (although in the past they have printed how disappointed they are that 'satans worldly governments' prevent them form doing so!) they try their best to 'kill you' to your friends and family."
For this one:
"Furthermore, those who try their best to walk away peacefully are apparently now being tracked down and DA simply for refusing to meet with judicial committees. "
I can assure you it is very very true! Mind you they will not
Disfellowship you but they...as WBTS Inc. representatives
in any country, will consider you as someone who has...
- voluntary dissociate - from the organisation !!!
More sick than that it is difficult. Also the slanderes,
liers, pedophiles etc. if they have the right..covering
are left in the congregations! And they have the brazen face
to write about the time period of the prophet Malachi!
Pathofthorns:
"This is escalation and generates more hostility as the organization reaches out with its hooks trying to squelch all voices of dissent in a free society. It is simply ludicrous and highly problematic for everyone involved"
Very, very sad, but unfortunately for the moment it is the
reality, for all those who disagree...with "..God's visible
channel on this earth"!!
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
i have only suspicions about this, and an elder at the hall over 2 -1/2 years ago tipped me off to this and kind of semi-verified my long held suspicions.
i never did get to elder school or even ms school because i never kissed enough ass, so i can't emphatically prove it myself.. he basically inferred or implied that nearly all the wtb&ts late 20th century problems had something to do with the "great" apostacy (witch hunt) of c.1980.. i have also talked to my brother-in-law about this matter a couple of times and he seems to be of the same bend or thinking.
it's kind of like the borginazational culture that everyone "believes" or it's "known" that the troubles were rooted out when ray franz and friends were booted.. .
Hello TheWiz,
thanks for the question and relevant informations.
Just few lines.
It waas after 1980 - disfellowshipping - of Ray Franz
the the WTBS, in successive years introduced many more
- rules and requirements ...scripturally based (?) -
to make sure that the R&F would not associate with the
disfellowshipped ones. The same 'treatment ' was later
used against the "dissociated ones".
There wer specific watchtower articles, in 1981, 1982,
1984 and 1986 . Also specific instructions in the
"ks"(elders manual).
All this was intensified in the 90' when the words
"apostate, apostates " and similar expression were
continually used in the watchtower articles, and this
trend is growing even more after the year 200O.
Of course a nice research, with correct quotes , will
be made in the future.
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
dear brother bowen:.
i have not yet seen the dateline program.
however, i have set my vct to record it this evening, when i will be at the book study.
Hello Silentlambs,
thanks for sharing this interesting material.
Let's hope that more like this brother will come
out and the WBTS Inc., will be at the receiving
hand. It is disgusting that they do still claim
to speak for Jehovah,...to follow Christ footsteps,
that their organisation show "...true love"!!!
Bonovox:
"Why is it that when someone is abused, or a parent is told by their child that they were abused, the first persons that they run to is the elders? Just who the hell are they to intercede in criminal matters anyways? I recall being taught that you would want to try to work out a civil or business disagreement within the congregation before going the legal route, but WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A CRIMINAL MATTER HERE PEOPLE!!!"
Excellent and very realistic comment. Unfortunately this
is still the WBTS Inc. policy!
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
(revelation 1:1).
armageddon was near .
of his people.
Hello everyone,
Sometime ago, referring to the apostle John,
this kind line of reasoning was printed in
“The Watchtower , February 1,2001
page 15, par. 6:
“He was privileged to write a Gospel, three
inspired letters, and the book of Revelation,
in which he foresaw the war ofArmageddon.
Did he quit when he learned that
Armageddon would not comein his lifetime?
Did he slump into apathy? No, John remained
faithful to his death, knowing that ‘although the
appointed time was near’, the fulfillment of his
visions was for a later date._Revelation 1:3;
Daniel 12:4 “
Notice the question for the 6th paragraph:
“ What example did the apostle John srt
for us?”
I do believe that those words above, published
worldwide by the WBTS Inc. , call for
several Scriptural and logic observations.
a) For a start the apostle John, received
a divinely inspired revelation :
“A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God
gave him ...and he sent forth his angel and
presented (it) in signs through him to his
slave John.” (Revelation 1:1)
So no word a man, ...or a group of men!!!
b) John was an eye witness to many
events during Jesus’ life and it was him who wrote this:
“This is the disciple that bears witness about
thse things and that wrote these things, and we
know that the witness he gives is true.”
(John 21 : 14)
c) Since he declared that the witnessing that
he was giving was true, we expect the samedi standard
from anyone, individual or organization that gives
witness to God and Jesus Christ.
d) The problem is that, nobody can find, in the Bible, that him or any other of the apostles went around Galilea, Cappadocia,
Syria, Galatia, Judea, Macedonia, Pamphylia, Bithynia,Cilicia, Syria, Phyrgia , etc. publicly preaching and teachning for years, actually decades , that:
°‘Armageddon was near’
or that:
° ‘Armagedon would soon come’
or :
°‘...few months remaining before Armageddon ‘
or , publicly preachingand teaching that
Amageddon would come :
“...before the generation that saw
the events ... « mentioned
by Jesus Christ .. » passes away." !
Nor they, the apostles, – John included – would ever come up with the idea to add, to the above
public declaration, in order to give to it more
authority, that it was a :
« ... Creator's promise ..» !
Furthermore, since Jesus disciples and also
the apostle, were giving public true witnessing
to God and Jesus Christ , they surely
would have never suddenly taken, away
something that was publicly declared, to the
many nations, as:
“ ...Creator’s promise ..”.
Such a declaration on the part of the
apostles or even John, would have resulted
in making appear the Creator like
someone who changes his mind...about His
promises.
But ...millions of people today know,
or at least should know that this kind
of action was done worldwide, by the
WBTS Inc., in November 1995.
d) Theaggravating factor in this serious
case is that this action
-a false declaration in the Creator’s name –
was done while in the same time, continually
making worldwide, claims such as these ones :
I) From the book :” Qualified to be Ministers”
(published in 1955 by the WBTS Inc. page 156 paragraph 5 :
If we have love for Jehovah and for the organisation
of his people we shall not be suspicious, but shall,
as the Bible says, ‘ believe all things, ‘ all the things
that The Watchtower brings out, inasmuch as it has been faithful in giving us a knowledge of God’s purposes and guiding us in the way of peace , safety
II)*** w72 8/15 501 God Readjusts the Thinking
of His People
“Jehovah is simultaneously feeding all his people spiritually through The Watchtower and other Biblical
publications.”
III) *** w90 12/15 26 'Seeking Delightful Words, Correct Words' ***
For over a century, delightful, correct words of truth covering every aspect of life have been presented in the Watch Tower Society’s publications and widely distributed in many languages.”
IV)« The Watchtower » January 1, 2000 page 9 :
« God's Word, the Holy Bible , must be the sole basis of the Christian's faith and way of life. (Isaiah 8:19,20; Romans 15:4) It is wrong to add to God's Word or take anything away from it.- Deuteronomy 4:2; Revelation 22:18,19 "
V) From “The Watchtower “, April 15, 2001 page 21
“ Does a Christian need any revelation besides the Word of God as contanied in the Bible? No. The book of Revelation cautions against adding anything to the
inspired record: “ If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll.”_Revelation 22:18.”
VII) ‘The Watchtower’ August 1,2001 page 14,
paragraph 8 stated:
“Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth
as it is revealed by Jehovah God through
his Son, Jesus Christ, and “the faithful
and discrete slave.”
VIII) “Isaiah’s prophecy Light for all Mankind “ scheduled for the week of the 3rd June 2002, page 310, paragraph 18 :
“ Each Christian should listen carefully as Jehovah speaks through the pages of the Bible and
through Bible-based publications provided by “the faithful and discreet slave.”(Matthew 24:45-47)
(This quote is the most recent one)
In conclusion, when the WBTS Inc., comments
referring obviously to the vast majority ot the
“ rank and file “ of the JW’s, like this:
***” Did he quit when he learned that
Armageddon would not come in his lifetime?”
Who has been telling, the R&F , many versions
about the coming of Armageddon???
***Did he slump into apathy?
Can the WBTS , continually change dates,
opinions, viewpoints and still claiming that:
“...Jehovah is simultaneously feeding
all his people spiritually through
The Watchtower and other Biblical
publications.”???
And instead of using the term – apathy -
would it not be more appropriate
to say that – deception – has resulted
in thousands and thousands of the “R&F”
been sick and tired of everchanging stories and
never ending lies, coming from the WBTS Inc. ?
No, John remained faithful to his death, knowing that ‘although the appointed time was near’, the fulfillment of his
visions was for a later date._Revelation 1:3; Daniel 12:4 “
Who is the WBTS Inc. that can make a search into
heart’s motives and inclination , because every – true Christian-
knows that he/she has to prove faithful to God and the one
He sent, His son Jesus Christ, in order to receive everlasting
life.
It is really as Charles Taze Russell wrote many, many decades ago:
“Standing thus free , untrammeled by human creed and bondages, but personally united to Christ each will find
in the others “ members of the body of Christ” affinity,
fellowship, and love .” and also :” ...each follower of Jesus
Christ can claim God as his Fatrher, and is He, and not any
system or organisation who hath delivered us from the power
of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His
dear Son. “ Rom. 8:14-17; Col. 1:12-14.-
Greetings to you all, James Charles MacHislopp
i would like to share with you some points.. when reading the wtbs inc. publications one wonders how it is possible to publish.
opinions , ideas , viewpoints , understandings etc .
and present them as ...correct words of truth .. as it was stated, for example in a watchtower article almost 12 years ago :.
Hello Anglise and Ozziepost,
thanks for your appreciative comments
about the research. It is nice to
know that the efforts to present,
what seems at first sight just another
of the thousands statements by the
WBTS Inc., when investigated deeper
it reveals all the ...hidden parts:
lies, misinformations, partial quote
etc. etc.
And yet, even today the WBTS Inc. continues
in the same line of thought i.e.:
" Logically, to enjoy God's backing, one must
teach only what God reveals in his Word and
reject teachings based on human wisdom or
tradition.- Isaiah 29:13; Matthew 15:3-9;
Colossian 2:8."
(from ' The Watchtower, June 1, 2001 page
14, paragraph 7)
To Bang: I'm sure you'll give it another try...!
Greetings to all, J.C.MacHislopp
as an ex presiding overseer and public affairs spokesperson who is now disfellowshipped!!!
i am new to this site and have read with keen interest the many and varied topics that have been posted.
during my 9 years of presiding i encountered certain corrupt c/os for example the friends would treat them like little demy gods, hanging onto their every word, they would, on their visit influence the brothers to part with cash for privledges.
Hello Metatron
I have to congratulate
you for sharing the experience about the
honest elder.
This part it's really great...!!
"He replied "Do good to your enemies and pray for those that
persecute you!". The CO didn't know what to say."
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
