if the organization did not actually prophesy the end in 1925 and 1975, then how come so many witnesses left the faith immediately afterwards?
("they lost roughly three-quarters of the movement between 1925 and 1928, then suffered huge losses after 1975, when the end didn't come as they had implied over and over again," said jim penton, an ex-witness who writes entries on jehovah's witnesses for the encyclopedia americana.
if the watchtower organization rejects others calling them "inspired" yet the watchtower organization does call themselves "god's spirit-directed prophet" what is the difference?
Larc:
It would be nice if you could post the entirety of that article to show the context.
Based on the continuous and ongoing positive comments regarding Russell in the various pubs, including the various "histories", since 1951, it is obvious that the 1951 comments were something less than a "rejection" of Russell.
premise: many who have read the bible over the centuries have accepted it as authoritatively from god, and have glossed over some glaring inconsistencies, contradictions, and shear nonsense.
some cultish groups have attempted to mimick the myths and twisted beliefs they have derived from the bible.
jehovah's witnesses are no exception to this.. this raises the questions: if the bible (as we know it) is from god, having his stamp of authorship and approval, then can we ever at some point raise serious questions about it?
Amazing:
Quote: "How do you respond?: How can we answer? By what right can Jehovah God command it illegal and wicked to murder, and then not only violate His own laws, but have his very people under this Mosaic Law violate that law? Does this mean that murder is only murder if we do it without God's orders? So then, the Law was not some perfect standard foreshadowing the Law of Love. Rather, it seems like a mockery, a rule that can be set aside at any time when it is inconvenient to keep."
RESPONSE:
Murder is a crime per Government. Government declares War in furtherance of nation purposes. Now, soldiers can be legally instructed to "kill" those whom the Government designates, and such "killing" is not "murder".
Jericho was no different than Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, etc.
Might makes right.
if the organization did not actually prophesy the end in 1925 and 1975, then how come so many witnesses left the faith immediately afterwards?
("they lost roughly three-quarters of the movement between 1925 and 1928, then suffered huge losses after 1975, when the end didn't come as they had implied over and over again," said jim penton, an ex-witness who writes entries on jehovah's witnesses for the encyclopedia americana.
if the watchtower organization rejects others calling them "inspired" yet the watchtower organization does call themselves "god's spirit-directed prophet" what is the difference?
Brutus:
First, Russell was not the WTS President in 1879. Try 1884.
Second, maybe you could tell us how to properly spell the name of God in English. (This should be interesting, since noone knows how to spell it in Hebrew.)
Third, please show us where the modern WTS "rejects" Rutherford, or Russell for that matter.
Fourth, could you please post the "apostolic succession" record of whatever fundy group you belong to, along with irrefutable proof for each transference.
Fifth, "Uncle Miltie" will first have to do or say something recorded as noteworthy before he could ever be "rejected" later in history.
Sixth, just how long did you spend lurking here before you decided to bedazzle us with your brilliance?
are the holy bible and the nwt the same?
tell me why are they different.
Brutus:
Take your arguments to this thread, and let's see how long they last..... http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10440&site=3
i guess i've just been naive.. i was surprized to find that some 'super loyal'.
witnesses i know have been practising witchcraft.. of course, they'd never call it that - it seems that.
when various illnesses arise you get out an assortment.
The same types of personalities which are attracted to the WTS's "anti-establishment/counter culture" RELIGIOUS BELIEFS are also attracted to the same "anti/counter" BELIEFS in other areas, such as MEDICAL TREATMENT.
Russell printed in the WT that medical doctors were modern-day equivalents of "Jannes and Jambres"- the Egyptian magic-practicing priests. In both Russell's and Rutherford's eras, "alternative" medical theories were continuously promoted in the WT and GA mags.
I have been associated with numerous congregations over the decades, and every single one had an Elder/Elderette who promoted and/or sold some type of "alternative" medical/health "system". Often, I was able to trace the origin of such back to a CO/COette. I believe that this "witchcraft" probably has roots all the way into Bethel.
I have seen genuinely ill JWs fall for this "shit", and suffer for years rther than get the adequate medical treatment they need. If there was some way to quantify this, I believe there has been as many people harmed by this "undetected" phenonenom as the WTS's blood policy.
a friend and i have come across a quantity of crisis of conscience in like-new condition, both english and italian editions.
we're in a quandary as to how to make best use of them.
we were thinking of donating them to the libraries or to perhaps cut a deal wth a local christian book store.
Farkel:
I can tell you from my own personal experience of trying something similar that run-of-the-mill "Ministers", who don't already have an anti-JW agenda for whatever reason, are very leary of ANY material about JWs, even ANTI material. Even ANTI books, such as COC, will have SOME comments which might get their parishioners "thinking" about subjects the "Minister" doesn't want them thinking about.
Yes, some books would be accepted, but most would never be cracked open, by the "Minister"(who already thinks he already knows everything he needs to know abou JWs) or by church members who would never be told the book was available.
Most churches do not have a very extensive library other than their "sunday school" materials. Those "libraries" you see in the "ministers" office are His, and leave with him when he transfers.
a friend and i have come across a quantity of crisis of conscience in like-new condition, both english and italian editions.
we're in a quandary as to how to make best use of them.
we were thinking of donating them to the libraries or to perhaps cut a deal wth a local christian book store.
Does "quantity" mean 25 or 250?
To get the books in the hands of people who actually are interested in reading them, I suggest "selling" them on Ebay. I occasionally check Ebay for COC, and I hardly ever see a copy for sale. Put in the ad that the copy is being "sold" for educational purposes and request that "resellers" not bid on such, as well as limit one copy per address. You could offer to "dropship" these anonymously to JW relatives.
I would establish a minimum price (maybe $7.50- retail is what-$12.00?) and use the proceeds to buy more and keep the chain going as long as possible, even if you later have to pay retail.
Donating them to libraries is too "iffy". Maybe they will make it to the shelves, maybe not. Maybe they will be read, maybe not. Maybe the library will delete them after a year, maybe not. Maybe they will be vandalized, etc., etc.
just read the latest posts in the "just got home..." thread, and the posts regarding "no repercussions for apostasy" jogged my memory about something i posted about a month ago.. if you will recall, i posted that an old jw acquaintance had recently obtained my email address from a relative, and had sent me an email which i quickly interpreted as an attempt to get me to put my "apostate" beliefs in writing, so there would be "hard evidence" for a judicial committee.
there were 2 or 3 other posters who related that the exact same thing had occurred to them recently.. well, i haven't heard anything since, and i even encountered an elder at the supermarket over the weekend.
we didn't exchange conversation, but we did exchange quick greetings as he hurried pass me.. the funny thing is that my own family refer to me as "the apostate", with some totally avoiding contact, some only making contact for family business, and one or two fluctuating back and forth from normal to shunning.
sorry, just wanted to move this up...
well, here it is, after almost 20 years 12 of those serving in position of responsibility it comes down to my spiritual execution(jw style).
allow me to explain.
for those who you who still remember me from h20 under the name truthexodus i came to post my experience as an elder of local congregation in nyc area.
Hell, take advantage of this!
Call Dateline up, and get them to wire you up with video and audio. The first jc meeting on primetime television.
what song do you want playing at your funeral?.
i'll be having "going underground" by the jam.
i was too far out... and not waving but drowning - stevie smith
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