Anyone else attend (or even drive-by a KH) this week's TMS/SM, or even a meeting for FS?
MadApostate
JoinedPosts by MadApostate
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OVERFLOW KH MEETING TONITE!
by MadApostate ini just drove by the local kh on my way home, and the parking lot was overflowing, almost like at the memorial.
there were probably 50% more autos than are normaly at the average ms/sm.. is this just a local "phenomenon"?
anyone else here live near a kh?
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NOTIFY YOUR HOSPITAL & DOCTORS ABOUT JW SPYS
by MadApostate ini am sending this letter via email to both my local hospital and to several doctors (different version) who have occasion to treat my immediate family.. i thought that i would post such on the db so that others here could also do the same.
however, i would ask that you do not completely duplicate the letter, in the event that the same hospital or same doctor receive this more than once, and discard it as a hoax.
please take the time to change some of the wording, and personalize it to your own circumstances.. i will post any received replies, and i ask that others please do the same.. *****************************************.
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MadApostate
I am sending this letter via email to both my local hospital and to several doctors (different version) who have occasion to treat my immediate family.
I thought that I would post such on the DB so that others here could also do the same. However, I would ask that you DO NOT completely duplicate the letter, in the event that the same hospital or same doctor receive this more than once, and discard it as a hoax. Please take the time to change some of the wording, and personalize it to your own circumstances.
I will post any received replies, and I ask that others please do the same.
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*****************************************Dear Sirs:
Both myself and other members of my family have been patients of your hospital at various times over the past 20+ years. Recently, a serious issue has come to my attention, which has caused me sufficient concern that I feel that it is appropriate to bring such issue to your attention.
This is a "confidentiality issue" which faces your facility, as well as all other health care organizations. This "confidentiality issue" is directly related to the religious affiliations of both some of your employees and some of your patients.
Both myself and the majority of my family are affiliated with the Watchtower Society, whose members are commonly known as Jehovah's Witnesses. As a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses community, two separate incidents of "breaches of professional confidentiality" have recently been discussed throughout the United States.
As I am sure that you are aware, Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden to accept blood transfusions. Recently, a Jehovah's Witness conscientiously decided to accept a blood transfusion in order to save their life. This personal decision had to be kept secret, even from their other family members, otherwise the JW knew that they would be "disfellowshipped" (excommunicated) from the JW organization. However, after the JW was discharged from that hospital, photocopies of hospital documents (not identical to those given to the patient) "somehow" found their way into the hands of the local JW "Elders", who proceeded to "disfellowship" the JW who had accepted the blood transfusion.
The second incident of "breach of professional confidentiality" occurred when a Jehovah's Witness had a sexually transmitted disease treated by their medical doctor. Again, photocopied medical records found their way into the hands of the JW's local "Elders", who proceeded to question the JW regarding their sexual conduct. Evidently, the JW successfully sued the medical doctor after it was learned that one of the doctor's employees was also a Jehovah's Witness, and that employee had given copies of the patient's medical records to the local JW "Elders".
As a member of the local Jehovah's Witnesses community, I know that other Jehovah's Witnesses are employed by your hospital at any given time. I am greatly concerned that those JW employees might also access and distribute copies of my medical records, or those of my family. Just the possibility of such would probably make any of us think twice about secreting accepting a blood transfusion if we ever had the misfortune of needing such.
It bothers me greatly to have to disclose to non-JWs that the Watchtower Society actually teaches and encourages Jehovah's Witnesses to spy and report on each other. I fully expect that you will even find it difficult to believe me, or to take this as seriously as I have.
Therefore, I am including an excerpt from the main JW magazine, THE WATCHTOWER, which conclusively demonstrates that JWs are required to report confidential matters of fellow JWs to the local elders, in spite of their professional obligation of confidentiality to their clients or their employers. This WATCHTOWER article teaches JW professionals that their obligation to spy on and report their fellow JWs is higher than their professional obligation.
Here is the article excerpt: (Please read slowly and carefully, because the meaning is almost "hidden".)
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THE WATCHTOWER Magazine
September 1, 1987 Issue
Article: "A Time to Speak"-When?
Excerpt from pages 14-15.Thinking Ahead Employers have a right to expect that their Christian employees will 'exhibit good fidelity to the full,' including observing rules on confidentiality. (Titus 2:9, 10) If an oath is taken, it should not be taken lightly. An oath makes a promise more solemn and binding. (Psalm 24:4) And where the law reinforces a requirement on confidentiality, the matter becomes still more serious. Hence, before a Christian takes an oath or puts himself under a confidentiality restriction, whether in connection with employment or otherwise, it would be wise to determine to the extent possible what problems this may produce because of any conflict with Bible requirements. How will one handle matters if a brother or a sister becomes a client? Usually such jobs as working with doctors, hospitals, courts, and lawyers are the type of employment in which a problem could develop. We cannot ignore Caesar's law or the seriousness of an oath, but Jehovah's law is supreme. Anticipating the problem, some brothers who are lawyers, doctors, accountants, and so forth, have prepared guidelines in writing and have asked brothers who may consult them to read these over before revealing anything confidential. Thus an understanding is required in advance that if serious wrongdoing comes to light, the wrongdoer would be encouraged to go to the elders in his congregation about the matter. It would be understood that if he did not do so, the counselor would feel an obligation to go to the elders himself. There may be occasions when a faithful servant of God is motivated by his personal convictions, based on his knowledge of God's Word, to strain or even breach the requirements of confidentiality because of the superior demands of divine law. Courage and discretion would be needed. The objective would not be to spy on another's freedom but to help erring ones and to keep the Christian congregation clean. Minor transgressions due to sin should be overlooked. Here, "love covers a multitude of sins," and we should forgive "up to seventy-seven times." (Matthew 18:21, 22) This is the "time to keep quiet." But when there is an attempt to conceal major sins, this may be the "time to speak."
(End of excerpt)
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-----------------------------------------I don't know what you can legally do to protect me and other JWs from your JW employees who might spy on us, but something obviously needs to be done to protect the confidentiality of our medical records.
Whatever you decide, I would ask that you reply to my email so that I can have some peace of mind. Frankly, I have not used my real name, but this email account is real. If the Watchtower Society were to learn of this email and my true identity, I would also be "disfellowshipped" for "disloyalty" for disclosing this information to you.
I anxiously await your reply!
Thank you.
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Tickets for special meeting changed!
by Esmeralda inhey all,.
i've been out all day, so i apologize in advance if anyone already posted this info.. one of my jw relatives (whom i happened to see while visiting my dad this afternoon) told my mother that she'd have to "turn in her ticket to the elders to get a replacement.
" from what she said, they've changed the color of the ticket.
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MadApostate
NB:
The Org is full of contradictions, as well as consistencies.
JWs join and stick to the Org because it is "special", which makes its members "special".
Tickets give the sense that this meeting is "extra special", and that recepients are "extra special".
As the "Church Lady" use to say, "Isn't that special?"
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UNITED NATIONS , NGO's and WTBS
by MacHislopp infollowing the link given by kent,.
i have several observation to make:.
(from the link : http://www.un.org/moreinfo/ngolink/brochure.htm).
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MadApostate
Zev:
Given the ongoing crisis, I would suggest that you give UN-DPL a month or so to reply, and then try again. Your email is probably about #834,953 on their list right now.
I would also suggest not contacting the WTS on this. What do you hope to gain (?), other than tipping them off on something that I consider one of the more significant "finds" that can realistically be used against them.
Have some patience! -
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A Legal Problem With DF'ing?
by metatron inwhen some one is df'd, they are held to be df'd.
in every congregation in the world.
a record is sent.
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MadApostate
HCM:
Despite my numerous posts on this subject, you (and probably most others here) JUST DON'T GET IT.
There ARE factual scenarios which can WIN against the WTS, but they are few and far between.
I am not discouraging anyone or anything EXCEPT those XJW "leaders" who have been proven to have mislead the XJW community about the "likelihood of success" of past and ongoing lawsuits.
What the XJW community should be doing is readily identifying and acknowledging the strengths and weaknesses of various legal scenarios. Educate XJWs which scenarios have NO chance of winning, which scenarios have Possibility of Winning, and which scenarios have Likelihood of Winning.
DFing, child abuse, etc. are NOT "new phenomenon". If winning a lawsuit against the WTS for such were as easy as many here like to portray, then why aren't there previous Winning Cases which we can reference?
The "Only Case" that I am aware of which can be seen as somewhat of a victory is the Texas abuse case which the WTS "settled" a couple years back. However, the Texas courts have since set precedent which indicates that the WTS would have likely won that case if they had not chickened out and settled.
I am an advocate of "reality". That includes my realizing that some people here will continue to intentionally mislead those who are willing to believe anything negative relating to the WTS.
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OVERFLOW KH MEETING TONITE!
by MadApostate ini just drove by the local kh on my way home, and the parking lot was overflowing, almost like at the memorial.
there were probably 50% more autos than are normaly at the average ms/sm.. is this just a local "phenomenon"?
anyone else here live near a kh?
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MadApostate
Farthead:
I see you are as stupid and ignorant as ever, but now even unable to understand simple arithmetic, basic WTS history, and the "big picture".
Anyone with even a moron's understanding of WTS history appreciates that the WTS's growth has historically resulted from repeatedly making apocalyptic predictions of Armageddon, bolstered by world events which "seem" to be fulfilling Biblical prophecy.
The WTS originated from the Millerite movement of the 1830s/40s, which itself made a series of failed apocalyptic predictions for Fall 1843, Spring 1844, and finally Fall 1844. After the movement broke up, and the smaller Advent Christian groups were facing extinction in the 1860s, they started another series of apocalyptic predictions for Fall 1873, Spring 1874, and finally Fall 1874.
Russell was attracted to the Adventist movement by such predictions in 1868/9, but it is uncertain how much he participated in such predictions until his documented association with Barbour in 1876, who by that time was now re-predicting things to happen in Spring 1878. After 1878's predictions failed, and Russell and Barbour split, Russell re-predicted events to occur in Fall 1881.
After that prediction failed, Russell wised up and chose a date further in the horizon, 1914, thus gving himself more breathing room prior to failure, and allowing him to use the events of the Industrial Revolution to point to Bible prophecies. However, the 1914 date was supposed to be a "finale", with "lead-up" events supposedly beginning around 1907-08. When those predicted lead-in events failed to materialize, Russell started hedging on the 1914 "finale", changing such to 1915 as 1914 approached.
Of course, WW1 pulled Russell's gonads out of the fire, and allowed Rutherford to re-predict 1925 as the new "finale" date, with lead-in dates such as 1919 and 1920 seeing the fall of world religions and world governments, respectively.
When those dates came and went without any fulfillment, Rutherford stretched his 1925 predictions into the 1930s as "any time now" predictions, when he too was rescued by WW2, which allowed the "any time now" predictions to continue.
After WW2 failed to turn into the BigA, the world entered the Cold War Era, bolstered by the Korean and Vietnam Wars, as well as regional conflicts all over the globe, including the Middle East. All fed the WTS's apocalyptic predictions, which festered into Franz's next date-setting for 1975. Even since then, there have been undercurrents pointing to 1984, 1994, and then the Millenium.
Starting with only a small handful of friends and relatives in the 1860s, the Org has grown to around 14 million disciples with varying degrees of beliefs.
Yes, the series of failed apocalyptic predictions always resulted in people leaving the Org, but the math speaks for itself. Over the long-term, even failed predictions have resulted in positive growth for the WTS.
It is a formula for success which will inevitably be repeated.I'm surprised that someone who "fancies" himself the Savior of "hundreds" of xjws from the Org is so short-sighted. Maybe the word "fantasy" is more appropriate.
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Stupid CamelJockies
by MadApostate indetails are still unclear, but it seems that one or both of the groups of arabs arrested today at laguardia and jfk were using tickets for cross country flights to lax which had been cancelled tuesday morning after the airlines had been notified of the hijackings.. looks like there were two additional planes that were to be hijacked/crashed.
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MadApostate
There were 4 in each group, including ones with pilot credentials.
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21
OVERFLOW KH MEETING TONITE!
by MadApostate ini just drove by the local kh on my way home, and the parking lot was overflowing, almost like at the memorial.
there were probably 50% more autos than are normaly at the average ms/sm.. is this just a local "phenomenon"?
anyone else here live near a kh?
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MadApostate
Anyone back from CST zone meetings?
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2
Stupid CamelJockies
by MadApostate indetails are still unclear, but it seems that one or both of the groups of arabs arrested today at laguardia and jfk were using tickets for cross country flights to lax which had been cancelled tuesday morning after the airlines had been notified of the hijackings.. looks like there were two additional planes that were to be hijacked/crashed.
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MadApostate
Details are still unclear, but it seems that one or both of the groups of Arabs arrested today at LaGuardia and JFK were using tickets for cross country flights to LAX which had been cancelled Tuesday morning after the airlines had been notified of the hijackings.
Looks like there were two additional planes that were to be hijacked/crashed.
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21
OVERFLOW KH MEETING TONITE!
by MadApostate ini just drove by the local kh on my way home, and the parking lot was overflowing, almost like at the memorial.
there were probably 50% more autos than are normaly at the average ms/sm.. is this just a local "phenomenon"?
anyone else here live near a kh?
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MadApostate
After I posted the above, I read GWEEDO'S post, so maybe it is due to the news.
Well, maybe the WTS will learn something from the high attendance figures this week. All they have to do to overcome the last few year's slump is to predict another date for the BigA. Then, numbers willtke off again. History has proven that the WTS will always have more stay than will leave.