i fought many years from inside as an independent spirit trying to change or at least mitigate damage done by the wtbts.
i met ted jaracz, in the early 1970s when he was called into bethel to serve on the gb.
this mans control of the service department and the gb is what i have fought for 3 decades but recently conceded this system is beyond reforming.
Jst2laws,
The world is filled with the Ted Jaracz and JF Rutherfords. These are the type of people who push their way to the limelight by shoving anyone in their way, out of the way. Some stand around and praise this. Others stand around stunned or do not know what to do. The rest walk away. How many again have left the board recently?
my path needs to be revamped.. i do plan to have a serious discussion with elders and attend the kingdom hall.
where that will lead, time will tell.. i am not leaving mitch.
even if i did become a jehovah's witness and celibate again he would love me just the same and i him.. you cannot become ungay.
Joel,
I respect your journey. You do have a lot to think about. What are the core truths that you still sense? Please answer. I wish you well.
is it possible that when we see posters get upset, and then leave, that they feel devalued by the group?.
when we leave the witnesses, are we not devalued as apostates by those who remain witnesses, some of whom are lifelong friends?.
could it be when we find a place like this, we discover again that we are valued, so that anything threatening that sense of belonging hurts too much as a reminder of our exit from the witnesses?.
Francois,
I like your comparison to monkeys. Chickens, on the contrary, will gang up to peck and pick at one of the flock when it is bleeding. It is like they are trying to get rid of the weak for the benefit of the strong. Maybe some humans have too much Chicken DNA. I like to think that we can rise to nobler ways, at least to the level of monkeys.
is it possible that when we see posters get upset, and then leave, that they feel devalued by the group?.
when we leave the witnesses, are we not devalued as apostates by those who remain witnesses, some of whom are lifelong friends?.
could it be when we find a place like this, we discover again that we are valued, so that anything threatening that sense of belonging hurts too much as a reminder of our exit from the witnesses?.
Waiting,
I agree that behavior is the responsibility of the receiver. Their perception may be shaped by things not entirely in their control. Maybe they are not aware of the flaws in their perceptions.
If someone brings me flowers, a person that I have had a long relationship with, my experience with them will shape my perception and reactions. To me, relationships are interactive.
If that same person I have had a good experience wiht acts out of character, my reactions will be different than if it were someone I did not know well.
Is it possible that some of those who left recently acted out of character? If so, how do we react to them?
IslandWoman,
Devaluation may not always be the problem. Maybe in the case of some it is part of the problem. Do you see this possibility?
is it possible that when we see posters get upset, and then leave, that they feel devalued by the group?.
when we leave the witnesses, are we not devalued as apostates by those who remain witnesses, some of whom are lifelong friends?.
could it be when we find a place like this, we discover again that we are valued, so that anything threatening that sense of belonging hurts too much as a reminder of our exit from the witnesses?.
Francois,
I guess we come here to find something and maybe to do something. The Witness life handicapped us in ways we don't fully understand. I don't know if I ever will understand. I believe that our experience with the Witnesses stunted our humanity on many levels.
Could it be we just bring with us to a new stage the sum total of what shaped us? If we grow and evolve we can find better ways of treating others, I suppose. The hurt and anger some have might be why they take longer to make the transition to full humanity.
I am wondering if when a poster becomes upset, if the rest of us can rally around the person as assure them of their worth before continuing with debates. Maybe we can add some assurances as we debate just to soften the feelings. It seems like this would allow everyone to think more freely. What is your opinion?
is it possible that when we see posters get upset, and then leave, that they feel devalued by the group?.
when we leave the witnesses, are we not devalued as apostates by those who remain witnesses, some of whom are lifelong friends?.
could it be when we find a place like this, we discover again that we are valued, so that anything threatening that sense of belonging hurts too much as a reminder of our exit from the witnesses?.
Waiting,
I agree, perception is a big factor in the mind of the receiver. The perception of our Witness friends left behind is that we are now evil. I think their perception is seriously flawed.
Do you think that maybe our own perceptions, as receivers of the apostate title, may also bear some flaws? Maybe we carry flawed perceptions with us, and use these as tools in assessing our new found friends here? It seems possible to me that our old patterns take time to get reinvented into useful tools that work in new relationships.
btw. I am Magog, not MrMoe
is it possible that when we see posters get upset, and then leave, that they feel devalued by the group?.
when we leave the witnesses, are we not devalued as apostates by those who remain witnesses, some of whom are lifelong friends?.
could it be when we find a place like this, we discover again that we are valued, so that anything threatening that sense of belonging hurts too much as a reminder of our exit from the witnesses?.
Is it possible that when we see posters get upset, and then leave, that they feel devalued by the group?
When we leave the Witnesses, are we not devalued as apostates by those who remain Witnesses, some of whom are lifelong friends?
Could it be when we find a place like this, we discover again that we are valued, so that anything threatening that sense of belonging hurts too much as a reminder of our exit from the Witnesses?
If we add in personal grief, such as Tina has posted, does it make sense that any feeling of devaluation is amplified?
Maybe if we learn from our Witness experience, it might serve to help us give others the benefit of the doubt?
just by posting on this board pro dubs show they cannot follow the rules of the wbts.yet they are here to tell the rest of us to follow the rules of the wbts.what is wrong with this picture?...outlaw
Outlaw - Its obvious that JWs who post here saying such things are using a double standard. Which JW posters have done that?
Danny do you think that all JWs are self-righteous pricks?
ruminations ---part 4. as i was mentioning in the former parts, we find ourselves at war.
this is not a war that we started or wished to be involved in.
it has been forced upon us against our will.
A lot of good material. The legal mindset you talked about is very interesting. I wonder how much the Society reads boards? If they do, what effect do you think this might have on them?
in light of the bru-ha-ha we recently endured over what began as and elder culpability issue gone awry, i thought i would present some words of wisdom written some time ago on this very board.
apparently some poster had had a visit by some elders and had felt ganged up on.
he described this as getting a "whipping", much like we have seen recent allegations of someone here being recently used as a "whipping boy" for another poster.
Who are you talking about? What is the context? What is your point?
