Posts by cobweb

35

Question for those that have been Disfellowshiped for apostasy VS succesfully fading

by NikL in

jw
friends

there are quite a few here who have been disfellowshipped for apostasy.. then there are those that have successfully faded.. why the different outcome?

are the ones that got df more out spoken?

or does the discrepancy lie with the elders?.

cobweb

If the reason you give for not going to meetings are connected to doctrine, jw history etc, then elders will deal with you on that basis. First they will try to make you see that whatever issue you have is not a problem. If you don't accept this then you get the 'do you believe this is god's organisation' type questions. Thats the road to being df for apostasy.

A safer road to take is one that doesn't connect to doubt over doctrine. You believe its the truth but..... Illness, depression etc. I'm sure there must be other things too that would work. They then have no grounds to see you as a spiritual danger.

15

So I Guess Talking about the Bible is Prohibited

by Lone_Wolf1294 in

.

cobweb

If they were ever to do accurate re-enactments of the biblical attrocities - genocides, stonings etc, on their jw broadcast videos, they would have to give them 18 certificates.

8

You Need to Heal

by TheLiberator in

it has been awhile since i posted.

but i wanted to say a few things that may help those recovering from the watchtower, especially if you have just discovered ttatt.

it is with humility that i come here to express these thoughts.

cobweb

Not sure if I have got your point here - But I am interested in what you have raised.
Just a question.....If you intend to embrace theses previously "missed things" like Xmas/ Birthdays/ Halloween/ Valentines etc etc are you not simply taking up in the boxes of the originators and inventors of these above things all over again? They too are / were in boxes of belief systems - So like the little Russian Matryoshka Dolls you are still inside one of them who is still in another etc etc etc.?

What matters is that these are opportunities to enjoy life and bring people together in a positive way. Most of the big celebrations, no matter where you live on the planet have a basis in the passing of the seasons. The rebirth of the sun, the harvest etc, have celebrations attached to them. Naturally, when people believed in supernatural forces they would associate these natural events with the gods. So if you want to think of the origins of everything you will find this.

I went to a great Diwali celebration once in India where they threw around fireworks in a rather alarming way, but everyone enjoyed themselves. This is called The Festival of Light and is it associated with the darkest time of year where a light festival acts to challenge the darkness. There are gods associated with it. It is a fun time and enjoyed by all besides those who want a good night's sleep.

Or what about the Hindu Holi festival which is again, a seasonally based celebration of rebirth and spring. They throw around brightly coloured paint at each other which I imagine could be fun. Again Gods are attached but, these are the same seasonal celebrations that exist everywhere. In Thailand they have Songkran - which i was lucky enough to go to - where they have massive water fights everywhere and everyone is carrying water pistols and buckets. It is basically the same thing as Holi and happens at a similar time of year to mark the same event. rebirth. They have different religious beliefs associated with it.

My point is, why does it matter? These events and celebrations - in the west, it is Christmas and Easter - simply serve the same function as other festivals elsewhere. They bring people together, make them happy. They serve a certain ritual service in marking the passing of seasons. Yes, if you go back far enough there were primitive superstitious people who associated gods with the natural events. If you go back a bit further there would probably be different gods still. But why should that bother us now? Just accept it as an opportunity for joy - there's no need to overthink it. Partake in the rituals as they stand - its not important where they came from, any more than knowing the origin of the wedding ring. If you want to throw off all pagan influence then you'd have to get rid of the calendar too as all the months of the year have pagan associations.

The OP is correct. It is great you have the opportunity to enjoy these times you missed with grandchildren and I am sure you will find it healing.

15

A Brother refusing to pray?

by HereIgo in

i remember there was a brother in my congregation while i was in who would comment at all meetings but if asked to pray at a meeting or meeting for service he would always politely refuse.

i always found it odd, i assumed as a young bro, that a bro was kind of obligated to pray if asked.

knowing what i know now, it could have been a guilty conscience or maybe he just wanted to be lowkey.

cobweb

Just after i got baptised, the presiding overseer came up to me in the meeting break as i was coming back from the bathroom. He asked me if i would like to say the closing prayer. I said, thanks but no i'd rather not. I didn't explain, i just smiled and said 'i'd rather not'. It was just nerves. I didn't really think too much about it. I never got asked again, but that suited me and i wasn't fussed. I wasn't one for reaching out although i did auxiliary pioneer.

I did other things, read the watchtower, mics, took service groups, said prayer at the group study. But it seemed like saying no to saying the prayer at the hall that one time was enough to not be asked again. I expect they thought it was a snub to me but i was happy about it.

73

Quite Possibly The Most Sinister Speaker Ever?

by pale.emperor in

hi guys.. "brother" jose is quite possibly the most sinister speaker i've ever seen or heard.

and i've seen/head a lot of cults in my time.. he's over the top with his voice tone and gestures.

i see a future governing body member in the making here:.

cobweb

i remember this guy from ceders video. He plays Senacherib in the convention drama and he inhabits the role. You're right, he is soooo sinister!

16

Children and Blood Transfusions

by Listener in

a hospital in qld.

australia sought orders to allow a blood transfusion on a minor if necessary.

this occurred on the 12th june 2015.the child was 7 years old and required a liver transplant within the next two or three years otherwise death was seen as inevitable.

cobweb

I have seen a few of those images before but they still shock me each time. Their manipulative intent is so clear and designed to tap into primal emotions. That is why the phobias remained long after the teachings were abandoned. That guy with the big nose (second pic down) is a Jew no doubt. I think the Nazi party used the same artist.

16

Children and Blood Transfusions

by Listener in

a hospital in qld.

australia sought orders to allow a blood transfusion on a minor if necessary.

this occurred on the 12th june 2015.the child was 7 years old and required a liver transplant within the next two or three years otherwise death was seen as inevitable.

cobweb

are quite prepared to sacrifice them on the Alter to Jehovah , by refusing lifesaving blood transfusions , and also casting them out of their homes and shunning them

Or as someone at the last convention might put it:

Being Loyal, like Abraham.

16

Children and Blood Transfusions

by Listener in

a hospital in qld.

australia sought orders to allow a blood transfusion on a minor if necessary.

this occurred on the 12th june 2015.the child was 7 years old and required a liver transplant within the next two or three years otherwise death was seen as inevitable.

cobweb

rebel8, thats pretty hard core thing for a kid to have to do. It does seem like they have eased up where children are concerned based on this thread.

What I'm about to say is the cult equivalent of, "Why, back in my day, I had to walk 10 miles to school in the snow, uphill both ways."

There is something to that. The same doctrine is still there but the emphasis can change and lose its force, so the younger generation has little awareness of how it was. Like how although 1914 is still a thing, young jw's don't really get what a big deal it was for those in the 80's say.

When I was a young kid in the 70's my nan used to go on about how bad aluminium cookware was and I didn't know what the hell she was on about.

16

Children and Blood Transfusions

by Listener in

a hospital in qld.

australia sought orders to allow a blood transfusion on a minor if necessary.

this occurred on the 12th june 2015.the child was 7 years old and required a liver transplant within the next two or three years otherwise death was seen as inevitable.

cobweb

Toronto’s Sick Kids... now will go to “all lengths” to find alternatives to transfusing blood when Jehovah’s Witnesses voice their opposition, said Rebecca Bruni, a bioethicist at the hospital. It also asks parents to sign a letter of understanding — drafted with the help of one of the church’s hospital liaison committees — that says the institution recognizes their religious objections and will try to avoid transfusions if at all possible. The letter is not a consent form, but adds that where the child is at imminent risk of serious harm or death, medical staff will press ahead with the transfusion.

Its a pragmatic approach.

16

Children and Blood Transfusions

by Listener in

a hospital in qld.

australia sought orders to allow a blood transfusion on a minor if necessary.

this occurred on the 12th june 2015.the child was 7 years old and required a liver transplant within the next two or three years otherwise death was seen as inevitable.

cobweb

Interesting point. In the Convention video it showed Sergai defying the government by practicing his faith in a country where it was banned. He went to prison for it. The message in that situation is obey the GB in the face of the State no matter what happens.

But the all out resistance approach is not applied to stopping their children being forced to have blood. It may not be thoroughly effective to try to withdraw their child from hospital but they don't attempt it.

It is a double standard but its easy to see why it is the case. It would be so damaging to them to do this. It would not just look awful in terms of public perception, but it would stop them getting tax exemption - the government would clamp right down on them in a big way. Plus, I am not sure many JW parents in that situation would go along with it.

I recently read a book by Ian McEwan called The Children's Act which has an English judge dealing with a case of an underage boy who refuses a blood transfusion. The boy is nearly 18 and the judge has to make a determination as to whether to step in or not. She ends up forcing the child to have a transfusion and he survives but the boy comes to see his parent's true feelings about the blood policy. He saw that as much as his mother and father were outwardly trying to stop him having a transfusion, they were relieved when the issue was taken out of their hands and he was saved. It made him see through the religion.

I think that is probably quite an accurate representation of how things stand when push comes to shove for many JW parents. They don't want to fight too hard - as long as they make some effort its enough - they are more than likely relieved when the Court takes charge and they can maintain their clean conscience while their child can get to stay alive. And they are relieved that the Org doesn't talk about breaking the law to try to keep it from happening.