Question for those that have been Disfellowshiped for apostasy VS succesfully fading

by NikL 35 Replies latest jw friends

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  NikL

  There are quite a few here who have been disfellowshipped for apostasy.

  Then there are those that have successfully faded.

  Why the different outcome? Are the ones that got DF more out spoken? Or does the discrepancy lie with the elders?

  I can see nothing in the elders handbook to indicate they must DF someone who is inactive or has left the org in the dust.

  Back in the early 90s when it was discovered I had read "Crisis of Conscience", they had a judicial meeting with me but basically told me to keep my thoughts to myself and they would leave me alone. Maybe that was on account of my active JW wife?
  

  Any thoughts?
  
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  Darkknight757

  We told the elders the same thing, that we will keep our thoughts to ourselves and so far the wife and I have not been df'ed although we are very outspoken about never going back.

  Too I believe you need to put these idiots in their place and remind them that they have no power over you and that you are not afraid of them. They feed off of fear. If you have no fear then they can't hurt you.
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  NikL

  We told the elders the same thing, that we will keep our thoughts to ourselves and so far the wife and I have not been df'ed although we are very outspoken about never going back.

  I kind of think in the JW mind, being outspoken about NOT going back is completely different than exposing false doctrine...er... I mean tearing down the truth.
  
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  NVR2L8

  I stopped going to the meetings 7 years ago while my wife is still achive. Other than a courtesy visit from 2 elders after a full year out, they have left me alone. My younger brother is an elder in another congregation and I told him why I no longer believe in the WT and he said that nothing will ever change between us. To this day he has stuck to his word but that could change if I became openly critical of the WT and get disfellowshipped for apostasy. So fading works well for me .
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  blondie

  From reading on here, the more vocal and negative you are about the WTS to the elders or others, the more likely they will hunt you down and df'd or get you to da yourself in the heat of the moment.

  As a woman, I had to be more respectfiul and asking questions in a way that indicated I was looking for answers sincerely not questioning their authority. I found it better to present the info making me wonder and then asking for their input. Of course, the answer was in my the info always from the WTS publications, but I led them to only one conclusion except the organization is above the bible, in that form or other. I always said I had to be careful and stick to the clear message of the bible and not follow men.

  I can't teach this approach, but it works for me. We haven't had an elder at our door for more than ten years and they know where we are, jws say hi and wave to us at the stores and on the streets, but we have no real conversation, just hi and goodbye. I live by the motto, no pearls before swine. After 45 years, there are 2 kinds of elders, the bullies and the ones who let them do it. Remember my husband was an elder and he agrees.
  
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  cobweb

  If the reason you give for not going to meetings are connected to doctrine, jw history etc, then elders will deal with you on that basis. First they will try to make you see that whatever issue you have is not a problem. If you don't accept this then you get the 'do you believe this is god's organisation' type questions. Thats the road to being df for apostasy.

  A safer road to take is one that doesn't connect to doubt over doctrine. You believe its the truth but..... Illness, depression etc. I'm sure there must be other things too that would work. They then have no grounds to see you as a spiritual danger.
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  jookbeard

  my circumstances were a mixture of the two, I read CoC etc and was semi fading, made the mistake of voicing my views etc, invited to a JC but was not DF'ed I said I was sorry for stumbling others, would study more blah blah blah, I continued to fade though as my mind was made up 100% but I was keeping my thoughts to myself generally,about one year in I was trapped by a speaker phone conversation by the PO and answered the "loyalty" questions about the ORG that would end up getting me DA'ed in my absence I believe, I was never informed of any announcement and had no clue whatsoever about my status as a jw, it meant little in reality, shortly after I moved away, got divorced and got on with my life, if I could turn back the clock I would have been a bit more cautious when answering those questions from the PO, it caused a lot of upheaval but I got over it. A properly planned "fade" is far different, one has to be very careful who you speak to about doctrinal matters if you speak to anyone at all.
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  Tapioca

  There are several factors that inform different outcomes. One of those factors is time. A closely related one is distance. Those factors are definitely used in a successful fade.

  The other factors are more difficult to control because they involve others' attitudes. (See Blondie above--either the elder is a bully or permits bullying.) Sometimes you'll have a vindictive relative or former friend who needs to make a self-righteous point using your life. Sometimes other recent incidents render a body of elders more likely to be strict constructionists, hardliners, or---sometimes softer, more amiable. In some areas, having lots of truth-y relatives nearby could be good; conversely, it could be a terrible trap.

  And you have already identified the most important factor---your own self. If you can control yourself, if you don't have some old scores to settle or some point to make, you can simply say (see Cobweb above) depression, illness, personal issues...

  Three main factors: yourself (which is entirely in your control, ha-ha!) time/distance (which you can control with forethought and patience and resources such as worldly friends and enough cash to move out of the area) and others (over whom you have little or no control).
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  pleaseresearch

  My brother is shunning me big time and his wife. We have nothing to do with each other and I have a child and they have children. Sadly they don't even see each other. If not for my mum arranging for them to be together. The reason for that is I am outspoken.

  But if you want what ever family and friends you can get fade and don't say anything. But it's hard. When people ask you, you want to tell them ttatt. But in my heart I so much want to disassociate but I know I will lose my mum.

  It's really hard and my heart goes out to those who have lost loved one.
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  stan livedeath

  in my case--i resigned back in '71...but over the next 10 years i occasionally attended because my wife nagged me into it.

  no-one shunned me--and we mixed socially with lots of other jw couples. till '81......i had an affaire with a married sis--who got d'f'd for it---and it was announced that i couldnt be d/f because i wasnt a dub---but i was now an apostate and should be considered as d/f.

  wife divorced me---very much NOT what i expected or wanted. but from there on i never got contacted by any elders.

  from about '87 my kids decided they didnt want to see me anymore--and 2 out of 3 have shunned me since. one got d/f--and we are now family again. seeing him at christmas.

  so 2 of my kids havent had contact with me now for 30 years. i have 7 grandchildren i have never met. 4 of them live a few miles away. i dont even know the names of 2 of them.

  jehovah knows how to exact revenge on those who turn away from him.