Posts by cobweb

5

Eschatology based faith

by Steel in

my wife recently took a week off work to pioneer which really pissed me off because it kind of pissed away our summer holidays.

of course i asked my typical questions about " do you actually know what the new covenant is ?

or what is the point of all this time with the new understanding of the faithful slave.

Currently reading a book about the Apocalyptic movement. When you view apocalypses as a genre with a set format and ingredients such as dreams, visions of heaven, a judgement of good and bad etc and compare it with other apocalypses, like the book of Enoch, fourth Ezra, 2nd Baruch, Daniel too of course; compare it too to apocalypses of Babylonian and Persian origin, it is hard to view any of the book of Revelation as in any way unique or special. It just happened to be included in the bible.

The book of Revelation does not apply to our time. It was describing an imminent end just as Paul also expected an end in their lifetime. It has references to the Roman Empire. The mark of the Beast 666 or 616 as they think it is now, is a code number that identifies a specific Roman emperor. Just like Daniel wasn't referring to our time either. The King of the North and the King of the South - it is the Ptolemies of Egypt and the Seleucid's of Syria, literally to the North and South of Israel in the second century when Daniel was written. These biblical apocalypses are failed prophecy and they have not relevance for us.

10

Indoctrination or insistence on being right?

by OutsiderLookingIn in

nobody likes to be wrong.

so after being taught that they have "the truth" for so long, is it that jws just don't want to admit that they are wrong so they'll keep going in the same direction rather than reversing course?

this is different from indoctrination when you truly believe what you're saying.

cobweb

The JWs are not alone in being affected by cognitive dissonance. I think the persistence of the Israelite religion itself as well as the birth of Christianity can be greatly explained by it.

When Jerusalem was destroyed the Israelites didn't admit they were wrong about YHWH, but believed in him more devotedly, coming up with explanations for why he had them destroyed. Monotheism was born.

The disciples who believed Jesus as their messiah, couldn't face up to the prospect that they were wrong when he was suddenly executed as a criminal. They created an entirely new religion in order to maintain their sense of correctness, rather than admit they had made a colossal mistake. Christianity was born.

When Jesus didn't come in 1844, many Millerites didn't abandon their belief but created a scenario where they were correct after all. Jesus had come, but invisibly, and those that believed that, believed all the harder. The Seventh Day Adventist's were born.

Then you have Russell. People on bridges in white outfits ready to be taken up into heaven. Did Russell or those that came later admit they were wrong about Jesus coming in 1914? No,those that stayed, used the very same explanation as the Seventh Day Adventists.

The ones who stay despite all contrary evidence are the most psychologically invested. They would be the most damaged by having to acknowledge they were wrong. They will have been in the longest, given up the most, their sense of identity and self worth fundamentally linked to their belief system. When that belief system is threatened, their brain will distort reality in order that they remain right. Because admitting you are wrong about something fundamental is psychologically painful - traumatic even, and the brain will protect itself.

In this way, I think, Judaism, Christianity and the JW's can all thank cognitive dissonance for their continuing survival.

A new Scientology Channel?

by cobweb in

this popped up in my google news feed.

if tom cruise and kirsty alley really do create a scientology channel and tom presents a variety show, how bizarre would that be.

i don't know how seriously i can take it, its hard to imagine anyone watching other than as a car crash.

cobweb

This popped up in my google news feed. If Tom Cruise and Kirsty Alley really do create a Scientology channel and Tom presents a variety show, how bizarre would that be. I don't know how seriously I can take it, its hard to imagine anyone watching other than as a car crash.

http://celebrityinsider.org/take-that-remini-tom-cruise-to-start-scientology-cable-tv-channel-this-summer-32321/

29

New "paradise" video preview? "Will you be there?"

by stuckinarut2 in

my wife (unstuck) just saw a new 2-3 min video in her ex jw facebook feed, depicting a "paradise" scene preview.. it was complete with aerial shots and slow motion montages, with moving music.. scriptures were quoted across the screen, such as rev 21:3,4. i shazamed the music, and it came from another "worldly" album called "world of dreams.future world music" (you should see the song titles from that album!).

is it an official wt video, or some private persons production?.

if it is official, they seem to have once again resorted to desperate emotional manipulation tactics..... anyone else know?

cobweb

You don't need to take a trip in the future. You don't need to imagine these places with your minds eye.

You can go there RIGHT NOW.

Also, that singing sounded very Lord of the Rings to me.

18

Colossians and The Gospel of Thomas - a work in progress

by Doug Mason in

as i prepare the pre-draft stage of my study into the evolutions of salvation, i have drafted a chapter on colossians and on the gospel of thomas.

http://www.jwstudies.com/colossians_soteriologies.pdf.

http://www.jwstudies.com/the_soteriology_of_thomas.pdf.

cobweb

I cannot hope to offer anything beneficial to your project. I just have a few personal reflections which i have had very recently.

The similarities of the Gospel of Thomas and Buddhism are striking. I can see why it was not deemed appropriate to be put in the bible canon because it was not amenable to creating a power structure which must have been desirable for the Roman Empire. If one can be the same as Jesus by searching within oneself, then there is no place for external power structures.

Also, if one considers that there were many competing versions of Christianity in the early days that were fighting for domination, a version that emphased fellowship and creating group structures would seem to have an advantage over one which focused on a more individualised salvation.

On another note, regarding what Paul may or may not have written. I have had a negative view of Paul in some respects, particularly the way he spoke of women. I have only recently started to consider that those parts of the bible where he says these things probably were not written by him. They are found in Timothy which are highly disputed and a few verses in Corinthians which I read seem to be additions made at a later time, perhaps as a result of a margin note getting accidentally copied into the text. Its been stated that he actually spoke positively about women teaching and I think that is right, and now that I reassess the verses about women not speaking as not coming from him, it builds a picture of a man who I feel less antagonistic toward.

51

RUSSIA: (7 April 2017) Day 3 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way

by Drearyweather in

jw
friends

in moscow, a soft rain drizzles.

along the facade of the supreme court stretched a large queue of those who came to the process as listeners.

a large bus is parked at the courthouse on povarskaya street, full of obviously bored police officers.

cobweb

Thank you.

51

RUSSIA: (7 April 2017) Day 3 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way

by Drearyweather in

jw
friends

in moscow, a soft rain drizzles.

along the facade of the supreme court stretched a large queue of those who came to the process as listeners.

a large bus is parked at the courthouse on povarskaya street, full of obviously bored police officers.

cobweb

wasn't this supposed to be starting back up again today?

25

RUSSIA: (6 April 2017) Day 2 - Jehovah's Witnesses hearing under way

by jwleaks in

jw
friends

tighter security today and much greater police presence.

great weather.. .

lunchtime view over moscow.. .

cobweb

just my casual impression but the ministry of justice seem a bit under prepared.

20

news... From ITALY

by biblexaminer in

an old friend, a "brother" called from italy.

updated on a few things.. most interestingly, he said they just had their final assembly at their "beautiful assembly hall".. why would it be the final assembly?

because it's sold!.

cobweb

well jw life is boring so they've got that right. Personally i like intimate films where the drama is based on the interactions and relationships. I hope it does well enough that i can watch it on a download site at some point.

20

news... From ITALY

by biblexaminer in

an old friend, a "brother" called from italy.

updated on a few things.. most interestingly, he said they just had their final assembly at their "beautiful assembly hall".. why would it be the final assembly?

because it's sold!.

cobweb

Interesting about the film Thewonderofyou

Beyond the story itself, what did you think of the movie? Was it done well, did it have the ring of truth regarding Jw procedures and terminology etc.

The only film I have seen with JWs as the main theme was that Danish film Worlds Apart which was pretty good, although i wasn't sure about the elders with beards.