scotoma

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Posts by scotoma

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  8

  'The Great Submission', Masculinity, and Future Elders

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i will, in this post attempt to filter my thoughts thru the prism of political correctness and thereby cause no offense to anybody.

  if i fail, i ask that the "jury disregard those comments" ( laughable if a judge says it because it underlines what was said).. since the watchtower allows nothing but ( a veneer) of male domination, it faces a bleak future because of the decline of masculinity in general society.

  they abhor the idea of any 'sunday school' or more and so are not training young men to be fathers, husbands or just men generally.. i once went to a 'get together' - so called because the term 'party' might create offense - and noticed young brothers together with (hot) young sisters..................................................discussing shoes !!!!.

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  scotoma

  In JW land women don't count.

  Have you ever seen a sister taking attendance.
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  15

  JW teenagers party's

  by bigmac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i fondly remember my teenage days as a jw--back in the 1960's.. circuit assemblies-in birmingham, england uk.

  after the sunday afternoon god-fest there was usually a party--somewhere--in the evening.. one of the lads--his parents were care-takers (janitors?

  ) of an office block in the city centre.

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  scotoma

  I'm not saying that the use of the word "elder" caused the severe rule-making regime. But, it marked the institution of a larger organizational police force that felt responsible to monitor the lives and habits of others. They used the word "overseer" as the title of choice before 1971 and it was most often applied to the top dog. If you look in the index they continue to use the title overseer along with elder. This has been a period of obsession with organizational structure.

  The old structure was based on ability at public speaking. Usually the permanent overseer was one of the best speakers (teachers) in the congregation. If you wanted to be on top of the hierarchy you had to be a good public speaker. So, the underlings worked hard at teaching with a view that they might get moved into the overseers position in some congregation. There used to be a lot of shuffling of talent with brothers being sent to congregations where good speakers were needed.

  When they watered down this requirement it simultaneously changed the nature of the primary business of "teaching" to "policing". The way to get more authority became a game of "gotcha". You gained notoriety by being a strong adherent to "policy". This is also why the quality of discourse has become so boring. Meetings lack speakers with spark. It's like listening to Officer Krupke talk about the dangers of drugs.
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  36

  I'm not a fan of Jung, but...

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thought this was a good article to give hope to the "non-religious":.

  what would carl jung make of 2011?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13645959.

  carl gustav jung died 50 years ago today.

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  scotoma

  I have read a lot of books by Jung. And I have read favorable and unfavorable biographies. The only thing that I like about Jung is that he felt God should be a Quaternity NOT a Trinity. He accomplises this by including the Devil in the Godhead. Until we accept that the Devil is a necessary God function we will never get cured.
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  15

  JW teenagers party's

  by bigmac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i fondly remember my teenage days as a jw--back in the 1960's.. circuit assemblies-in birmingham, england uk.

  after the sunday afternoon god-fest there was usually a party--somewhere--in the evening.. one of the lads--his parents were care-takers (janitors?

  ) of an office block in the city centre.

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  scotoma

  There were great parties in the 50's and 60's. Drinking. Drag Racing on rural highways. Necking. Petting. Everything just short of coitus. And the organization held onto their young people through all that. In fact most of the elder's in their 60's now wouldn't want the young people to know what they were up to back then. Young men were also given a lot of responsibility in those days. It was not unusual to have a Theocratic Ministry School Overseer at the age of 17 or 18. Some of the best parties were when a brother was about to head off to jail for the draft.

  Then came the "RULES". It all came to an end when they brought in the body of elders concept. The watershed year was 1971. Look up the occurence of the word "ELDER" in the back issues of the Watchtower.

  Between 1950 and 1959 the word ELDER appeared 37 times.

  Between 1960 and 1969 the word ELDER appeared 24 times.

  Between 1970 and 1979 the word ELDER appeared 446 times.

  Between 1990 and 1999 the word ELDER appeared 582 times.

  Focusing a little closer:

  1970 ELDER appeared 3 times.

  1971 ELDER appeared 38 times

  and then after that it has consistently appeared 40-60 times per year thereafter.

  1971 was the year the organization started to go crazy.

  This could be a whole thread in itself. But those who have been around from the 1950's until now KNOW what I'm talking about.

  A lot of young people are disfellowshipeed for smoking. Some that have been disfellowshipped for smoking don't smoke anymore but they still don't want to come back.
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  36

  I'm not a fan of Jung, but...

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thought this was a good article to give hope to the "non-religious":.

  what would carl jung make of 2011?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13645959.

  carl gustav jung died 50 years ago today.

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  scotoma

  Jung was quite a bit like Sylvia Brown. He believed in seances - spirits that haunt houses etc. He was a non-scientific charlatan.

  He channeled several spirits on a regular basis. If it weren't for the financial support of his wealthy wife he would have been totally unknown.
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  20

  David Splane information anyone?

  by VM44 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we need more information as to what sort of person gb member david splane is.

  .

  there is very little about him that is known..

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  scotoma

  What do you really need to know about men who think certain words bouncing out of the Bible means Jehovah has chosen them.

  Originally, all JW's believed they were annointed so there was no need for some extraordinary confirmatory evidence. Going back to the early Christians they believed ecstatic word play was God's spirit providing an external witness to their calling. But, this was twisted after 1935 so that JW's could have a private experience that they felt confirmed their ordination. That's really a person's internal experience combining with a halucination that they are God's children.

  So, while Christians who believe in speaking in tongues may be experiencing a socially induced insanity, JW's who rely on some ambiguous feeling are quite probably really organically nuts. These men have gone through some delusional process where they firmly believe that they are "special". And it's been described as "words standing out as applying personally to them". This kind of person that is completely driven by feeling and auditory halucination can carry out the most outlandish acts. Think of Jim Jones, David Koresh, or George W. Bush. Yes, you probably forgot George Bush believed he was called by God.

  Splane reminds me of Govenor Walker of Wisconsin. Splane never impressed me as charismatic. He kind of has a sickening, syrupy approach that is more condescending than loving. Yeah, he says things like "The Governing Body want all of you to know that they love you very much". Does an audience that is dedicated to Jehovah and already believe they are experiencing divine love really need to hear that a mutual admiration society of self appointed princes cares about them. Yuk. That kind of charisma disolves easily in cold water.
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  11

  THE RISE AND FALL OF AN IMMENSE IMAGE & THE TEN TOE DILEMMA?

  by scotoma in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  startfragment.

  the rise and fall of an immense image & the ten toe dilemma?

  clearly the feet and toes ?represent the final world power on earth.

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  scotoma

  THE RISE AND FALL OF AN IMMENSE IMAGE & THE TEN TOE DILEMMA?

  Readers of the Watchtower are familiar with the flip-flop phenomenon. A certain idea is given as "truth". Then the opposite is given as "truth". Finally, that idea is repudiated and there is a return to an earlier interpretation. In order to lay the groundwork for the obvious errors of interpretation the Watchtower makes on this part of Daniel we need to examine a classic flip-flop. By the way it should read flip-FLOP with the emphasis on theFLOP.

  1958 EXPLANATION OF THE IMAGE'S FEET: ??Your Will Be Done On EarthPage 24 ??"But WHAT OF THE TEN TOES in which the symbolic image terminated? This feature showed that at the time of the end of this symbolic image the remnant of the Roman or sixth world power would vie with the Anglo-American or seventh world power and that there would be other independent political governments associated with those competing powers. The number TEN BEING A BIBLICAL NUMBER SYMBOLIZING EARTHLY COMPLETENESS, THE TEN TOES PICTURE ALL SUCH COEXISTING POWERS AND GOVERNMENTS.??1978 EXPLANATION OF THE IMAGE'S FEET:

  Fast forward 20 years to 1978

  Watchtower 6/15/78 page 13 in the article "Human Governments Crushed by God's Kingdom" it? says

  "There does not appear to be any prophetic significance to the image's having ten toes. This is a natural human feature, just as the image has two arms, two legs, and so forth."

  Fast forward 21 years to 1999

  1999 EXPLANATION OF THE IMAGE'S FEET: ??Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy page 59 paragraph 27 The (b) question for that paragraph is ??"What is pictured by the ten toes of the image?" The answer?

  "The ten toes of the image represent all such coexisting powers and governments, for in the Bible the number ten at times signifies earthly completeness "

  Why are they hung up with the 10 toes? If you read the 2nd chapter of Daniel the word "ten" doesn't even appear. If the number 10 were really significant don't you think it would have been mentioned? In fact "number" is also lacking in reference to arms and legs. This is NOT an ?interpretation that is driven by Holy Spirit. It is a hodge-podge of mystical numerological ideas? that lead Jehovah's Witnesses astray. What a shame that they go through all the trouble of? presenting the same nonsense dressed up with nice pictures.

  Here is another screw up involving their interpretation of the image.

  How did they decide that the feet suddenly represent "kingdoms"? (special emphasis is placed on plurality). The head represented one kingdom -Babylon. Next Dan. 2:39 says "after you there will rise another? kingdom (singular) ... and another kingdom(singular) a third one of copper.. Dan 2:40 says "And as for the fourth kingdom (again singular). So then is there a change in this pattern when the fifth part of this image is described? Dan 2:41 says the "kingdom (singular) will prove to be divided.... the kingdom (singular) will partly prove to be strong..." Finally, plurality is used when kings (plural) are? mentioned in Daniel 2:44 when it speaks of the whole image being knocked down and crushed. "It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms (plural). Some may be tempted to say that this is referring to the 10 kingdom/toes, however verse 45 repeats the symbolic metals of the image ?indicating that the plurality is referring to the image as a whole. Clearly the clay/iron does not ?represent "many" kingdoms and certainly not "all" the kingdoms of the earth. There is nothing to indicate that the feet and toes are anything but a singular kingdom that has as one of its characteristics that it is loosely held together. Therefore the statement by the Watchtower that "the ten toes of the image represent all such coexisting powers and governments" based on the? idea that "in the Bible the number ten at times signifies earthly completeness" is absolutely false.? Although the number 10 may at "TIMES" represent "EARTHLY COMPLETENESS" they fail ?to show how the feet of the image necessarily represents one of those "times". So it appears the Danielbook is a flip and a flop back 30 years to their 1958 explanation. The bubbles are definitely out of this glass of champagne. And you can be sure the convention of 2011 isn’t going to fix this because Fred is Dead (Fred Franz). Apparently even though he is supposed to be in heaven directing the Watchtower from his majestic vantage point he remains incommunicado.

  But, it is still worthwhile to ponder over what "kingdom" the feet might represent. I’m not saying there is ANY explanation but you would hope that there would be some creative writer that could make this whole thing a little more coherent.

  Clearly the feet and toes ?represent the final world power on earth. In Daniel Chapter 11 the final power on earth is the King Of the North. The King of the South is not mentioned again after the King of the North storms against the King of the South in reaction to being pushed. In Revelation the final head of the Chapter 13 beast is wounded, revives, and destroys Babylon the Great. This revived wild beast is hurled alive into the lake of fire. We can sum up the characteristics of the final power on ?earth as follows.

  1. It will prove to be partly strong like iron and partly weak like moist clay. It will?not prove to be sticking together this one to that one because they will lack homogeneity due to being mixed with the offspring of mankind.

  2. It will achieve its power over the whole earth after it recovers from what appears as a death-blow. After it revives people will wonder admiringly at its ability to still do battle.

  3. It is significantly a NORTHERN kingdom.

  Does this not describe Russia? Is it just a coincidence that Russia, the largest country in the world, with three-quarters of its land mass north of the 50th parallel should also be described with the following words:

  "Within one week's time, in the summer of 1991, the 74-year-old Union of Soviet Socialist? Republics became a finished part of history." _ Comptons On-Line Encyclopedia

  What about the clay & iron feature of the final empire? Does that fit USSR/RUSSIA? We can look again to the Compton's On-Line Encyclopedia for a description of Russia's so-called "Nationalities Problem".

  "In an age of nationalism every nationality aspires to independent statehood. The non-Russian peoples were appeased with a hierarchy of administrative units. Fifteen were granted a soviet socialist republic status that, according to the constitution, most resembled that of a sovereign nation-state. Twenty others possessed the status of an autonomous soviet socialist republic,? which provided some cultural autonomy. Still others were recognized as autonomous oblasts or autonomous okrugs, designations that meant little beyond an official acknowledgement of ethnic identity... The government became less and less ethnically representative as a result of the slow? demographic growth of the ethnic Russians and the rapid growth of the other ethnic groups, especially the Muslim groups in Central Asia and elsewhere."

  Once you sweep away Watchtower misunderstandings you end up with an explanation that is? eerily coherent.

  OK Watchtower writers play with this a little. You should be able to come up with something better than a flip, a flop, and then another flip. Or maybe you can’t tell a flop when you see one.
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  54

  No Rapture But JW's Shown 2 B The True Idiots

  by Pig in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  loved this article in australia.

  five other end-of-world predictions: .

  1. followers of william miller believed the world would end on october 22, 1844.. 2.the jehovah's witness religion has predicted the end of the world in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941, 1975 and 1994.. 3. charles wesley, founder of the methodist church, predicted the world would end in 1794.. 4. famous forecaster nostradamus predicted doomsday would happen in july 1999.. 5. english mystic joanna southcott predicted the world would end on october 19, 1814, when she gave birth to the messiah.. .

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  scotoma

  Notice how much Camping looks like Fred W. Franz? Maybe it's a syndrome of some sort.

  Can't wait to hear Campings explanation. I'll fall over if it involves an invisible return or a symbolic earthquake.
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  98

  The "WOW!!" moment...Theocratic Ministry School was a sham!

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just remembered something from long ago..... i moved to california in 1974 after i had been in "the truth" for 11 years, having full-time pioneered and also having served time in federal prison over the so-called christian neutrality issue.. i felt completely confident that my bible education was the best on planet earth.

  i had honed my skills by door to door preaching, discussion, arguments and attendance at the theocratic ministry school.. i began working as an artist in a huge company that manufactured all kinds of art, sculpture and wall hanging.

  the head of the artists was a wonderful young man, skilled artist and devout christian who took me under his wing.

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  scotoma

  Kind of like the Old Soviet Union. "The government pretends to pay and the workers pretend to work"

  Elders pretend to teach and publishers pretend to learn.

  Have you ever sat behind a chronic head nodder? Irritating. Classic introjection.
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  16

  Proof That The "Truth" Is A Cult

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  once upon a time, an elder approached brother discouraged in the back of the kingdom hall.

  he said, "we've missed you at the meetings.

  is there some problem?".

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  scotoma

  This is NOT proof that the "truth" is a cult. Metatron has described one of many hypothetical scenarios.

  Proof requires more than a hypothetical situation.

  JW's are a religion. All religion is clinging to an obsolete map of reality.