alcyone

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Posts by alcyone

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  35

  1975 statements

  by A Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  from jw org.

  “six thousand years of human existence”.

  in 1969 the watchtower magazine in czech began publishing a series of articles based on the book life everlasting—in freedom of the sons of god.

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  alcyone

  That blog defendingjehovahswitnesses is really a gem!

  Strong arguments used there
  

  As for the 1975 debate:

  1, It "forgets" to mention some facts - "selling houses" OKM, Sinutko's talks, ... Kind of symptomatic for WTS supporters - the org is doing the same in the publication.
  

  2, Arguing the "slave" is not a false prophet as they do not claim inspiration. Yes, they are not inspired, they are only "God's communication channel" - this contradiction have been discussed so many times and still somebody uses it as an argument.

  3, Red herring in form of attack on Christian churches that in absolutely not relevant to the 1975 fiasco.

  4, Talking about two sets of rules used by "opposers" when in reality WTS uses two sets of rules for everything...
  
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  39

  Shunning

  by A Believer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  you guys do know that if you just leave and never go back you wont be disfellowshiped right?

  i know people who have done exactly this.

  you have to commit a sin and you or someone else has to tell a elder.

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  alcyone

  What A Believer wrote is a good demonstration of WTS tactics to handle criticism. Similar arguments were used by comrade Jackasson during the ARC. They completely ignore what is the criticism about and start to "prove" something that nobody questions.

  When discussing shunning, they argue you can successfully fade and say they know a lot of people who did it. You just need to avoid 'sin'. They ignore the fact nobody says you cannot fade. Nobody says when you fade you will be 100% immediately disfellowshipped. The critics say that when you fade, you are still under the rules and discipline of the organization including their specific definition of 'sin'. For example no one except JWs considers a blood transfusion to be a sin, nevertheless if you had faded and elders learned you took it, you would be DA'd. JW advocates never address this problem and always try to show when you stopped attending meeting you would not be DFd automatically. But nobody says you cannot stop attending meeting.
  

  What will happen if you vote? This is 'sin' only for JWs...

  If you attend non-JW worship? If elders learn you say to your colleagues you are not a JW? If you celebrate Xmas?

  What if there is 'a new light' prohibiting something done normally in the past? Does the org expect faders to comply?

  There are many questions ignored by JW defenders, they always repeat "But you can stop reporting hours and attending meetings..."
  
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  36

  Three graphs in connection with the Watch Tower's current financial situation

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a number of public statements by the governing body indicate that they are experiencing financial difficulty and they have appealed to jws to donate more money.

  public information on the financial situation of the watchtower society is limited.

  but what does the information they do publish indicate about their situation?

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  alcyone

  Here in CEE region they started to equip COs with company cars. Perhaps this was standard in the US (and other countries) long ago but here COs were using their own cars. If they launched such program for more countries, it can increase Capex / depreciation that goes to the costs of overseers, special pioneers and missionaries.

  The cars were introduced only in less than 10 years (I cannot recall when).

  Anyway, it is strange how the costs increased over the years, especially when this is only a fragment of the total costs (I assume Bethels are not included in the number).
  
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  13

  CoC Promotion BUS at the gate of District Convention in Seoul, Korea

  by intropist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  our korean brothers are very shy.

  they reacted as the above ^^;;.

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  alcyone

  Let us recall article from the February 2016 WT (pg. 32):

  Kingdom recordings in Portuguese finally arrived in late 1938. On All Souls’ Day, the sound car went from cemetery to cemetery playing the records “Where Are the Dead?,” “Jehovah,” and “Riches,” reaching over 40,000 mourners! Indignant clergymen resented the bold public proclamation of Bible truth and often pressured local authorities to silence the sound car.

  I am wondering if the term "indignant clergymen" applies also to those indignant witnesses that blocked CoC promotion bus...
  
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  19

  Watchtower Nov 2016 - Instructions for Apostates

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the november 2016 watchtower is now available and it has more new light but i can't quite figure out what they are saying.

  it relates to when the jws were released from the captivity of babylon the great (false religion).

  i am not attempting to discuss that in this post.

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  alcyone

  

  Do it this way in the kingdom hall!
  
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  21

  Is it me or were the experiences at the assemblies really contrived?

  by keyser soze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my favorite were the ones where they were reading a wt publication in the break room at work, and an inquisitive co-worker, thirsty for spiritual knowledge approaches them.

  this leads to an informal witness, which eventually leads to bible study and baptism.. in all my years of working, i've never had anyone show the slightest bit of interest in what i was reading while i was on my break at work.

  but as i said, maybe it's just me..

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  alcyone

  I recall our 1st circuit assembly after the fall of communism (there were no assemblies before the fall). As a young boy I was asked to relate my experience and it came written completely from the branch office! It was completely written, we were not allowed to change a word. So I told "my" experience about how schoolmates were pressing me to do something nasty, etc. totally fabricated!
  
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  23

  1914.... current significance?

  by NeverKnew in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it seems that when i ask witnesses questions about 1914, they really don't understand the relevance to their message today.

  i am told that they preach about the coming kingdom and that they don't preach a message of 1914. if a person doesn't understand 1914 then i can clearly see how showing them the inaccuracies of the doctrine wouldn't matter.

  can we compile a list of ties 1914 has to their current beliefs?.

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  alcyone

  There are many questions that lead to the 1914 question:

  Why did nobody come to the JW interpretation of the Bible in 1830? ... "Because it was not the time of the end, only after 1914..."

  Why it was right for CTR to leave SDAs instead of 'waiting for Jehovah'? .... "It was different then, it was not time of the end which started in 1914"

  JW's teach there is some special period after the 1914. During this period there are different "rules of engagement":

  - before 1914: study Bible individually, question auhorities, create separate Bible study group, individual relationship to God matters

  - after 1914: join the right organization, otherwise you are lost!

  Maybe you can start from this angle and later they will discover how much they rely on 1914
  
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  26

  Can a Person Resign From Being One of Jehovah’s Witnesses? (JW.org FAQ)

  by Da.Furious in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  found this in my rss feed of, as new faq on jw.org:.

  the answer was .

  a person can resign from our organization in two ways:.

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  alcyone

  Can a citizen of DPRK criticize our great leader Kim Jong Un and our juche worldview?

  Yes he can. Each person makes his own choice regarding what he thinks and says. Our Ministry of People's Security is taking necessary steps to protect our beloved leader Kim Jong Un and to reeducate those showing reactionary attitudes.
  
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  69

  All 2016 Convention videos in English and all Talk outlines for download

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  all convention videos in english and all talk outlines for download.

  http://avoidjw.org/2016-regional-convention/

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  alcyone

  Have you seen "Alexey left the truth" video?

  https://youtu.be/rOfchJRX7lg?t=40s

  How is it possible so strong faith is destroyed when a colleague gives you some tract? It is funny to see this double standard - when somebody starts to be involved with the borg it is usually in the same way - tract or magazine handed over...
  

  The same Alexey is shown in the previous video as the one undermining the authority of CO:

  https://youtu.be/8rbP4JPTvPA?t=2m12s
  

  The message is clear: those criticizing unkind COs will be apostates later
  
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  21

  If WWI Had Not Started In 1914

  by JW_Rogue in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  would jws ever have arisen the way they did?

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  alcyone

  More people attracted by the future jworg promises than by the past "fulfillment".

  See the period of rapid growth before 1975, then in 1980s, early 1990s when the generation was sooo old. Maybe after the WW2 they got some credit for their pacifism / persecution in the camps, but I feel people are coming to JWdom to have their panda and nice house after the A. The borg is exploiting problems like corruption, crime, wars, insecurity to covert new members.