Posts by Martini

44

OK whos read some books here?

by Zep in

jw
friends

crisis of conscience,gtr, and all the rest etc.

i just recieved getile times by coj...i ordered it 2 months ago when i was full into analysing dub doctrine...but since then, i just dont care anymore about dub doctrine or refuting it...but its still an interesting read though.i'm going through it v e r y s l o w l y..... has anyone else read some books from here: [url]www.commentarypress.com[/url].

"in search of christian freedom" looks interesting?...sign of the last days?...dont all xdubs have to read coc...isn't it a sort of right of passage for you guys?..

Martini

Path said:
If you read the books Martini, you'll know that they believe they truly are the "channel". As Ray says, they are "victims of victims" and "followers of followers".

I don't think there is some big scam to mislead people. Things were just set in motion, and the org became what it did. A cold, heartless machine that took on a life of its own.

Hi Path,

Yes I read Ray's assessment of the whole WT concept. It still leaves me perplexed. Some have accused Ray of being too soft on the resposibilty and accountability of the individuals on the GB. Most if not all were aware of the dishonesty. Does this not make them accomplice to their predecessors?

Could it all be excusable innocence without any deliberate wickedness on the part of our leaders?

If there is NO deliberateness to mislead on the part of our leaders, than I could believe Jehovah IS using them as His channel, because as we would pardon children, Jehovah also could tolerate sheer stupidity. The Israelites failed many times but as a group they remained God's chosen nation (for a time).

Forgive me I'm perplexed but open to any reason.

Martini.

44

OK whos read some books here?

by Zep in

jw
friends

crisis of conscience,gtr, and all the rest etc.

i just recieved getile times by coj...i ordered it 2 months ago when i was full into analysing dub doctrine...but since then, i just dont care anymore about dub doctrine or refuting it...but its still an interesting read though.i'm going through it v e r y s l o w l y..... has anyone else read some books from here: [url]www.commentarypress.com[/url].

"in search of christian freedom" looks interesting?...sign of the last days?...dont all xdubs have to read coc...isn't it a sort of right of passage for you guys?..

Martini

First off I'd like to extend warm greetings to all the regular posters that I've met here in the past, but also to the newbie's and especially Sister Mrs.Simon, Welcome.
FYI,I am working at TWO jobs (making up for lost revenue) so that's why I only get to lurk here sometimes but less often to make any significant posts.

I have read much of this material, as a result I have lost complete confidence in anything the WT Society prints and I am unable to recommend that people follow our teachings.
I am left perplexed though... I could understand that the average witness is oblivious to the lies and cover ups as exposed in those books, but what about those brothers in the writing department, are they sincerely spell bound as well? The only way you could tell a lie straight faced is if you sincerely believe that what you are saying is not a lie in which case your conscience would allow you to continue in the deception without blame and/or guilt.
Do you people feel there has been and continues to be a deliberate and intentional plan to mislead the brotherhood?
Basically what I'm asking: IS it possible the leadership truly believe that the good the WT Org. is doing is much greater than the harm?
Is this what the leadership sincerely believes or are they just protecting their positions and thus delaying and masking the reality from surfacing until the inevitable occurs?

Thanks for your thoughts,
Martini.

107

C.O. Reports: JWs/WTS "Reach Critical Mass...

by BitterTruth in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses/wts have reached "critical mass" - says ex-circuit overseer.

------posting copied from h2o-----.

posted by xelder [seeker4] on july 13, 2000 at 12:00:52 {rn3hpwrs1eubi2tgjvegd9bhhxgwag}:.

Martini

HI ALL,

As the saying goes "words are cheap", that's my feeling with this thread. I'm asking myself why should the future of the WTS be any different to the past 120+ years? Change occuring, yes, but
practically inconcievable to the greater number,
coming about pain stakingly slow and forever gradual. The organization doesn't suffer only the individuals whose living days are counted.So save yourselves and if you can and any that will listen to you.If you cannot leave consider it all joy to endure the tactics of this cult, for the sake of your brainwashed family and friends. Enjoy life the best you can given your lot.

Martini, who finds far fewer words to predict the worst.

16

To Meet or Not to Meet

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

this has been brought up from time to time in other posts relative to other arguments but i thought it deserved its own thread.. the first century christians formed congregations.

there is no debate about this.

that these congregations were not entities unto themsleves is attested to by the travels and subsequent letters of the apostle paul.

Martini

Hi ALL,

Waiting said;

"I do believe it will take effort on our part to reach out to others - and we have had the opposite point drilled into our heads don't reach out to others for biblical conversation. I think that's going to take time for me to weed out of my thinking process."

I think you get to the root of the problem with this statement. (Root to most problems infact)
It's going to be difficult for us brainwashed folks to view most anything religious without our ingrained WT bias.
Frenchy didn't Russell himself question where he might find the Lord's company or congregation?When he couldn't find any to his liking look at what resulted! From a small band meeting in freedom of the sons of God to an international group of slaves publishing for their LORDS.
I agree with Dubby and Waiting, religion is personal,only you know who,what where,when,why and how much you need to satisfy your spiritual need.For me personally I am thankful for the encouragement I was given to pay more than the usual attention to reading the bible. However I know now that anything in addition to the bible is spiritual surplus and of limited value.
I look at it this way I will speak spiritual thoughts with spiritual people where and when it is welcome, which can happen as often if you like it to.

Best to you,
Martini

20

Reasons for becoming a JW?

by Dubby in

jw
friends

i'm curious about the reasons for becoming a jw.

if you were raised a jw, were you pressured into baptism?

if you weren't raised a jw, what were the deciding factors?

Martini

I became a witness because I believe that if there existed a Grand Creator that he would have a purpose for the earth beyond the cycles of life and death.
The WT message sounded plausible.
Once inside now I believe that if there exists a Grand Creator that he would have a purpose for organizing a people beyond the cycle of endless meetings and door knocking.

I ask why the useless cycles, and I'll I ever hear is 'well because of such and such' one day the next day it's 'well because of so and so'.
That's it! nothing more but WORDS no ACTION.
All I get is excuses.

Martini who says let's get on with it already.

8

ARE we The Seed of Satan?

by Martini in

jw
friends

how do you react when the brothers are quick to point out that the error of those in the org.

today who 'shrink back' on their faith and obedience to the faithful and discreet slave class are the seed of satan and rebels similar to korah ,dathan and abiram also miriam.

the inference is that the fate or end result for todays rebels will be similar to that of those rebels of old where they incurred 'god's wrath' upon themselves and their offsping which led to god's annihilation?.

Martini

To ALL,

How do you react when the brothers are quick to point out that the error of those in the ORG. today who 'shrink back' on their faith and obedience to the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class are the seed of Satan and rebels similar to Korah ,Dathan and Abiram also Miriam. The inference is that the fate or end result for todays rebels will be similar to that of those rebels of old where they incurred 'God's wrath' upon themselves and their offsping which led to God's annihilation?

I'm only looking to get your reaction because I know how difficult it is to explain that first we must prove that the FDS is God's appointed leader over the modern congregation of Christ.
My reaction is to pity the mind control the witnesses face with each and every meeting they attend.

Martini,
RebelClass (smile)

24

Liberal JW's

by Dubby in

jw
friends

i admire the jw's who seem to be not too affected by what the society teaches.

for instance; my brother became a jw when he met his wife, who was born into the wts.

his wife and her family, always seemed to be very gregarious people, and enjoy life very much.

Martini

Frenchy,

YOU SAID;'Or could it be that way down deep inside the indoctrination never really leaves and somewhere buried deep in our psyche is the ever present notion that this still could be the truth?'

I have to admit I agree with you that it is a slow exiting from our 'CULT'. Every individuals cicumstances are different but I suppose a good ratio would be 10 yrs taking 'it' in/ maybe 3.3 years getting it out.'It' being the WT propaganda.
I do believe however that the exiting process can and will be shortened as the evidence becomes more easily discernable. Right now it's a maze to fully appreciate in what ways the WT is false.

YOU SAID;'Are we looking for that one argument that will make it all okay again, that will once again establish our faith in 'the truth'? I don't know.'

Myself even after reading most everything and am convinced that the WT is not God's exclusive channel would still love to hear a direct confession by the WT that those leaving MAY have good grouds for doing so.I suppose if this were said I could justify to my extended JW family that I was leaving with good reason.
Regards,
Martini

Edited by - Martini on 22 June 2000 10:46:41

24

Liberal JW's

by Dubby in

jw
friends

i admire the jw's who seem to be not too affected by what the society teaches.

for instance; my brother became a jw when he met his wife, who was born into the wts.

his wife and her family, always seemed to be very gregarious people, and enjoy life very much.

Martini

Hello Dubby,

I can relate to your description. I was a JW zealot, often insiders and outsiders referred to me as a FANATIC. Not because I was unreasonable or unbalanced in any mental or emotional way but rather because I believed the WT pipedream 110%.
I took everything literally, to the letter.
I believed the world revolved around our religion.For me our preaching work was the center of the known universe.
I am not prepared to reveal myself by giving details to my status current or past but I can tell you that to a great measure I lived as a sterling example of the JW clone. The GB would be proud of me, in fact F.Franz said so, not in so many words mind you.
I pitied the 'weak' who did not pioneer in their youth, who did not reach out, who just barely made the national average, who could not Aux.Pioneer several times a year etc,etc. I believed that what the FDS said was as authentic as Jehovah Himself saying it. If they said the end of the system was coming soon, I believed it with all my heart. Any who did not demonstrate faith in this by their actions were just fooling themselves so I thought. Until one day I woke up to smell the coffee, now the only ones I seek are 'Liberal JW's'. I'm thankful to JWXer's for giving me new direction to make a life for myself and for my loved ones.

Cheers,
Martini

Edited by - Martini on 21 June 2000 13:28:29

4

Hello??? Assembly Week?

by waiting in

jw
friends

am i the only fearless on to be able to admit that i am here - and thus, not much else going on in my life right now?.

new thoughts?

new arguments?

Martini

Hi Waiting,

D.Assemblies have their way of making the Organization look like a new born...fesh,healthy and new. Like the Org. has always been clean, error free and full of God's blessings. Certainly makes even an former believer stop in their tracks to reassess ones standing with God.It all appears like Jah and Christ are in FULL control and have no place for us faithless ,weak ones.
One cannot help but go through the mental and emotional cycle 'do I?, don't I?,do I?don't I? belong to (these) God's people???.
Anyway it's all pretty exhausting.
Thank Jah for the Internet!

Good day to ALL,
Martini

Edited by - Martini on 20 June 2000 11:2:39

8

ATTENTION Lurking Jehovah's Witnesses.

by Martini in

jw
friends

dear fellow jw's,.

visiting this board and briefly viewing some of the comments here your probably wondering if this db is pro or anti-jw.. your probably asking yourself is this board for active, 'loyal' jehovah's witnesses?.

i'm not sure i can speak on behalf of the posters at this db, however from my perspective i will "try" to set this matter straight for you.. are those posting here current jw's or are they hiding that they are apostates?.

Martini

Hi Frenchy,
You Said,
...with the hope that we are mistaken and that someone will come along and correct our thinking and that we will once again dwell in that blissful state we once reveled in.

Before I can give full devotion to any religious claim, that claim will have to come with next to miraculous evidence. Only Christ himself can do that for us.
Other than that I will go on following the bible the best way I know how. You know what they say 'once bitten twice shy'.

To 7of9,
Only One is good, but you already knew that,so I will interpret your post to read;
GOOD! Brother Martini here...
Thanks for the link, but I have very little interest in the Shakers. For one I'm not through with the witnesses and secondly I doubt very much anyone can be set in their way. Life does not always go as planned evidently not even for Almighty God because either he planned things to go the way they did with man and earth or he wasn't set in his way, which is it?

Cheers,
Martini