Cameron_Don

Joined

• started 25 topics
• posted 63 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Cameron_Don

• 
  15

  Applying Chapter 21 (“Captives of a Concept”)

  by Cameron_Don in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  note: i found the following experience where someone (rob) applied captives of a concepts chapter 21 when trying to help his father-in-law see some of the interesting he learned from the proclaimers book.. __________________________________________.

  this past wednesday night, the 6th.

  i met with my father-in-law.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Cameron_Don

  Hi Ros,

  I still love your thought that "You cannot change someone's mind by proving that they are wrong."

  Don
• 
  15

  Applying Chapter 21 (“Captives of a Concept”)

  by Cameron_Don in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  note: i found the following experience where someone (rob) applied captives of a concepts chapter 21 when trying to help his father-in-law see some of the interesting he learned from the proclaimers book.. __________________________________________.

  this past wednesday night, the 6th.

  i met with my father-in-law.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Cameron_Don

  Hello Kepler,

  You said, “In one recent topic, I had asked specifically how it was possible to witness an invisible event: How do you know when it occurred?”

  Here is a comment from my book about how the Governing Body has changed the meaning of “the end of the Gentile Times” from referring to the literal end of their rule in 1914 to their rule being invisibly interrupted in 1914 by an invisible Jesus Christ who was invisibly present as he was being invisibly enthroned to begin his invisible rule from the invisible heavens.”

  How do Jehovah’s Witnesses know that all these invisible events occurred in 1914? They have no problem accepting this explanation because it comes from what they believe to be God’s visible organization. “

  As long as Witnesses believe the Society is God’s organization they don’t need any proof of the above invisible events.

  Don
• 
  15

  Applying Chapter 21 (“Captives of a Concept”)

  by Cameron_Don in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  note: i found the following experience where someone (rob) applied captives of a concepts chapter 21 when trying to help his father-in-law see some of the interesting he learned from the proclaimers book.. __________________________________________.

  this past wednesday night, the 6th.

  i met with my father-in-law.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Cameron_Don

  Thanks for all the nice comments about the book.

  It is hoped that it is iable to eventually reach those Witnesses and their families who are struggling with what they see going on but just haven't been able to put it together in order to see what it all means, which is simply that the Watchtower Soiciety has never been God's organization.

  Don
• 
  15

  Applying Chapter 21 (“Captives of a Concept”)

  by Cameron_Don in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  note: i found the following experience where someone (rob) applied captives of a concepts chapter 21 when trying to help his father-in-law see some of the interesting he learned from the proclaimers book.. __________________________________________.

  this past wednesday night, the 6th.

  i met with my father-in-law.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Cameron_Don

  NOTE: I found the following experience where someone (Rob) applied Captives of a Concept’s Chapter 21 when trying to help his father-in-law see some of the interesting he learned from the Proclaimers book.

  __________________________________________

  “This past Wednesday night, the 6th. I met with my father-in-law. He was baptized in the 1960's. I had borrowed the "Proclaimers" book from him last month.

  He had asked a couple of times if I had read it yet and if I had any questions. I had let him know I did and learned some things from the book that surprised me. I had let him know a few weeks later that I would like to sit down with him to go over some things.

  “Four months ago I read (about a 100 times), "Captives of a Concept". I took Cameron's advice in chapter 21 and basically copied in my hand writing chapters 2-5. I included a few choice past Watchtower writings that back up the books fine points.

  “My father-in-law was an elder in the 70's and was disfellowshipped for reasons I am not clear of. He was reinstated but never back to elder.

  “I started the questions out, by pointing out the issues described in chapter 21. I told him I was surprised to learn that neither Russell or Rutherford never knew Christ returned invisibly in 1914. "What? Where does it say that?"

  “I told him I would point that out, let me just get through my points first. He agreed. I went through 6 other points with him. Letting him know many times that this was just an outline.

  “I then went over the outline of how the GB judges other religions (Matthew 7:2). How Franz explained it in "Gods Kingdom of a Thousand Years has approached". And how they use the Watchtower June 1, 2001 to come up with 4 points to Watchtower Standards. He agreed that this is "correct".

  “Long story short - He was not aware that the writings that "Proclaimers" book stated (without stating) that the first 2 Presidents didn't know when Christ arrived.

  “Had never made the correlation that The GB didn't know until 1943 that Christ had returned. He was visibly upset with this but a few minutes later composed himself.

  “He went through automatic dispelling of the facts. I held firm to what the book was stating.

  “I then asked that the Jehovah's Witnesses do without fail follow the bible scriptures. "There is no doubt they do" was his reply.

  “Well, I told him I was surprised to learn that they were the only religion not watching for Christ's return and didn't open to him in 1914. In direct conflict with (Luke 12:36-37), which we immediately read in the Bible.

  “I have never received a more hateful stare in my life!!

  I immediately countered with this is what the "Proclaimers" book is stating, not me, and that I was just as surprised. This seemed to disuse the situation.

  “There were no questions, no counter with scripture, no attempt to use (Proverbs 4:18). I WAS SURPRISED! We talked for an hour about these issues. Me keeping the points on course with numerous attempts by him to bring other bible scriptures into the mix.

  “There were 2 attempts to use (Proverbs 4:18) to show me that these topics were off course. But by having first established the strict Watchtower Standards using (Matthew 24:45-47) and that Jesus would “review what they were teaching UP to 1919, he had no argument for the facts.

  “The only issue that was met with complete Refusal was the fact that ---- "In 1919 that slave was identified as the remnant of anointed Christians." Watchtower January 15, 1994 p.16

  “This is not true. They didn't identify that slave this way until 1927. In 1919 that Slave was still identified as C.T. Russell. Complete refusal on my father-in-law’s mind to accept it. He stated that the watchtower was correct in stating it was Russell.

  “So much for the plural nature of the Watchtower writing.

  I walked away from the table shaking his hand. I had let him know that it was my research into the history that prevents my Daughter from attending the Kingdom Hall. He said he was OK with that.

  “Since then I feel like I have Disrespected a good man. But then I remember some quotes from Ray Franz and realize I need to do what is right to protect my family, and when I am asked why, I state "I have learned the Truth about the Truth".

  “I hope this experience will help someone."

  “Rob”

  ___________________

  Submitted by Don Cameron
• 
  3

  What About: Daniel 12:10 & Malachi 3:3?

  by Cameron_Don in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  daniel 12:10 & malachi 3:3. daniel: many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined.

  malachi: (jesus) must sit as a refiner and cleanser of silver and must cleanse the sons of levi; and he must clarify them like gold and like silver.. here are a couple examples of what james penton said about using the bible to explain almost anything that witness writers want it to.

  in this case the witness writers want to explain away all of organizations former teachings that were not true (including the 48 mentioned in chapter 3).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Cameron_Don

  Daniel 12:10 & Malachi 3:3

  DANIEL: “Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined.”

  MALACHI: “(Jesus) must sit as a refiner and cleanser of silver and must cleanse the sons of Le’vi;’ and he must clarify them like gold and like silver.”

  Here are a couple examples of what James Penton said about using the Bible to “explain almost anything that Witness writers want it to.” In this case the Witness writers want to explain away all of organization’s former teachings that were not true (including the 48 mentioned in Chapter 3).

  The usual way of thinking is that the more false teachings a religion has had the more they prove that it is NOT the true religion. But the Governing Body has figured out a way to interpret the above Scriptures in such a way so that the more false teachings the Society has had the more they give the opportunity to prove that it IS the true religion.

  Here is how they do it…

  “The Bible speaks of a very vital and important prophecy, that is, the refinement. (Daniel 12:10 and Malachi 3:3) We can be glad that some of the teachings the Society had taught (“down till 1919”) are no longer taught now.”

  “This is evidence that Christ is truly refining his temple as the Bible had prophesied. Whenever it is pointed out that a teaching was incorrect, we can be thankful we’re being refined.”

  Just as Proverbs 4:18 says nothing about how God “gradually” and “progressively” has revealed the truth to the Watchtower Society, the above

  Scriptures say nothing about how Jesus has “cleansed” or “refined” the Society’s teachings that have not been true.

  The only possible way the Society’s interpretations of what Solomon, Daniel and Malachi said even have a chance of being correct would be if it really is “God’s organization.” But as many of us know, "Captives of a Concept” seems to pretty well eliminate that possibility.

  _______________

  Footnote: Since when did anyone connected with the Society become "the sons of Le’vi"?

  Don Cameron
• 
  17

  Who Passed Jesus' Inspection In 1919?

  by Cameron_Don in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was looking over the upcoming september 15 watchtower study article where it says that in 1919, something woke (the anointed) up!

  jesus had come to inspect all those who called themselves christians.

  some of the anointed did not pass this inspection.. but as many of us know, none of the anointed would have passed an inspection of the 48 teachings that are mentioned in chapter 3 of captives of a concept.. for example: according to the proclaimers book, none of the anointed woke up to jesus invisible presence beginning in 1914 until 1943 - 24 years after jesus inspection was over.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Cameron_Don

  I was looking over the upcoming September 15 Watchtower study article where it says that “in 1919, something woke (the anointed) up! Jesus had come to inspect all those who called themselves Christians. SOME of the anointed did not pass this inspection.”

  But as many of us know, NONE of the anointed would have passed an inspection of the 48 teachings that are mentioned in chapter 3 of “Captives of a Concept.”

  For Example: According to the Proclaimers book, NONE of the anointed “woke up” to Jesus’ “invisible presence” beginning in 1914 until 1943 - 24 years after Jesus’ inspection was over.

  And according to what they teach today, NONE of the anointed were awake enough to realize that THEY were Jesus’ “faithful and discreet slave” until several years after Jesus’ inspection was over.

  What the above suggests to me is that both the anointed Governing Body and their non-anointed writers have lived with their fairy tale history so long that they may no longer be able to notice the difference between their fairy tale history and the reality.

  Unfortunately, these are the ones millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses look to and depend on for their spiritual “food at the proper time.”

  What about the above statement: "Some of the anointed did not pass this inspection?” What are the chances that Rutherford would have passed Jesus' inspection after writing "The Finished Mystery"? If he didn't pass that insipection in 1919, who did?

  Don Cameron
• 
  17

  Has the Creator’s promise changed again?

  by Cameron_Don in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  up until 1995 the awake!

  said, this magazine builds confidence in the creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.. .

  but beginning in november of that year it removed before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away and replaced it with that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Cameron_Don

  It will be interesting to see if that statement in the AWAKE will eventually match up with their website.

  Don
• 
  17

  Has the Creator’s promise changed again?

  by Cameron_Don in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  up until 1995 the awake!

  said, this magazine builds confidence in the creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.. .

  but beginning in november of that year it removed before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away and replaced it with that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Cameron_Don
• 
  17

  Has the Creator’s promise changed again?

  by Cameron_Don in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  up until 1995 the awake!

  said, this magazine builds confidence in the creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.. .

  but beginning in november of that year it removed before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away and replaced it with that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Cameron_Don

  Up until 1995 the AWAKE! Said, “This magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.”

  But beginning in November of that year it removed “before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away” and replaced it with “that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things.”

  But today while looking at some stuff on the Society’s website I noticed that it now has removed “the Creator’s promise that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things” and replaced it with simply “the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world.”

  Is that what the AWAKE! magazine now says on its masthead page 4?

  If so, I wonder if there is even 1 out of 7,000,000 Witnesses who have noticed that “the Creator’s promise” has changed once again.

  Don Cameron
• 
  2

  Why 1876 Rather Than 1879?

  by Cameron_Don in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why does "captives of a concept" start counting the society's pre-1919 teachings from 1876 rather than from when he first began to publish his watch tower magazine in 1879?.

  because 1876 was when russell first began proclaiming two of his most important dates: .

  (1) 1874 for the beginning of jesus' second coming or "invisible presence.".

  1. 
  2. 
• 

  Cameron_Don

  Why does "Captives of a Concept" start counting the Society's pre-1919 teachings from 1876 rather than from when he first began to publish his Watch Tower magazine in 1879?

  Because 1876 was when Russell first began proclaiming two of his most important dates:

  (1) 1874 for the beginning of Jesus' Second Coming or "invisible presence."

  (2) 1914 for the end of the Gentile Times."

  Don Cameron