Posts by Maze

"some times the lord has let his people look for the right thing as the wrong time, and more frequently they have looked for the wrong thing at the right time.

" and "...it will be the other fellow that will have to do the explaining, and not we.".

1. germs don't cause disease.. 2. aluminum cookware will poison you.

Maze

Not to derail this into a science/religion debate, but this quote misrepresents science. Scientific truth is based on evidence, and the accumulated evidence supports evolution, not intelligent design.

If you believe there's any evidence that supports evolution over creation, you would have to post it, so I can see what it is. The fact of the matter is living organisms do not... nor have they ever behaved in the way Charles Darwin theorized.

There's a pattern, but it is hardly consistent. Wildly changing the definition of 'generation', multiple date changes and other 'new light' reflects an inconsistency that is incompatible with the term 'truth'.

Opposers of Jehovah's Witnesses always dance a gig around the exact same issues: the definition of the generation in Matthew 24:34-35 or speculation about Armageddon. There's no clear explanations for the exact timing of these events in the Bible.

Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. Matthew 24:36

The faithful and discreet slave while at times mistaken, clearly outline the criteria for the conclusions they reached while conducting diligent research.

Whatever the case, the flaws are there. And in abundance. Which makes them no different than the churches of 'Christendom' they are so eager to criticize.

There were not just mere flaws in Christendom's churches, there was an apostasy that blocked the way to God.

sh chap. 11 pp. 262-264 pars. 4-6 Apostasy—The Way to God Blocked

Historian Will Durant explains: “The Church took over some religious customs and forms common in pre-Christian [pagan] Rome—the stole and other vestments of pagan priests, the use of incense and holy water in purifications, the burning of candles and an everlasting light before the altar, the worship of the saints, the architecture of the basilica, the law of Rome as a basis for canon law, the title of Pontifex Maximus for the Supreme Pontiff, and, in the fourth century, the Latin language . . . Soon the bishops, rather than the Roman prefects, would be the source of order and the seat of power in the cities; the metropolitans, or archbishops, would support, if not supplant, the provincial governors; and the synod of bishops would succeed the provincial assembly. The Roman Church followed in the footsteps of the Roman state.”—The Story of Civilization: Part III—Caesar and Christ.

This attitude of compromise with the Roman world stands in stark contrast to the teachings of Christ and the apostles. The apostle Peter counseled: “Beloved ones, . . . I am arousing your clear thinking faculties by way of a reminder, that you should remember the sayings previously spoken by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles. You, therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on your guard that you may not be led away with them by the error of the law-defying people and fall from your own steadfastness.” Paul clearly counseled: “Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? . . . ‘“Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves,” says Jehovah, “and quit touching the unclean thing”’; ‘“and I will take you in.”’”—2 Peter 3:1, 2, 17; 2 Corinthians 6:14-17; Revelation 18:2-5.

In spite of this clear admonition, apostate Christians of the second century took on the trappings of the pagan Roman religion. They moved away from their pure Biblical origins and instead clothed themselves with pagan Roman garb and titles and became imbued with Greek philosophy. Professor Wolfson of Harvard University explains in The Crucible of Christianity that in the second century, there was a great influx into Christianity of “philosophically trained gentiles.” These admired the wisdom of the Greeks and thought they saw similarities between Greek philosophy and teachings of the Scriptures. Wolfson continues: “Sometimes they variously express themselves to the effect that philosophy is God’s special gift to the Greeks by way of human reason as Scripture is to the Jews by way of direct revelation.” He continues: “The Fathers of the Church . . . entered upon their systematic undertaking to show how, behind the homely language in which Scripture likes to express itself, there are hidden the teachings of the philosophers couched in the obscure technical terms coined in their Academy, Lyceum, and Porch [centers for philosophical discussion].”

119

Are JWs Who Join This Forum Expected to Tow the Accepted Line of

by believingxjw in

jw
friends

can those prominent in the "apostate" world be criticized?

we expect that jws be willing to read and swallow what is written here about their leaders and i agree with this.

but...do we also allow criticism of those taking the lead among us?

Maze

Another apostate feud?

29

These things Prove if Jehovah is guiding and speaking through the JW'S

by Terry in

jw
friends

"some times the lord has let his people look for the right thing as the wrong time, and more frequently they have looked for the wrong thing at the right time.

" and "...it will be the other fellow that will have to do the explaining, and not we.".

1. germs don't cause disease.. 2. aluminum cookware will poison you.

Maze

You're quoting from information published early in the 20th century when Jehovah's Organization was in its early developmental stages.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20020608/article_01.htm
Both science and religion, in their noblest forms, involve the search for truth. Science discovers a world of magnificent order, a universe that contains distinctive marks of intelligent design.

Jehovah's Witnesses are sincere truth seekers. Information published by Jehovah's Witnesses has a consistent pattern of corresponding to universal truth.
it-2 p. 603 Perfection

The Bible’s Perfection: The Sacred Scriptures constitute a perfect message from God, refined, pure, and true. (Ps 12:6; 119:140, 160; Pr 30:5; Joh 17:17) Though thousands of years of copying have evidently brought some variations from the original writings, these variations are admittedly very minor, so that, even if our present copies and translations are not absolutely flawless, the divine message conveyed is.

When a person loses Jehovah's holy spirit and goes so far as to deviate into apostasy, they become spiritually bankrupt and all that bleeds through are any imperfections that can be exploited for self-serving purposes.

But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. Matthew 24:48-51

Case in point, if the flaws weren't there, this wouldn't change your desire to be a part of Jehovah's Organization.

“12. Reading the bible is not as good as reading Watchtower explanations of the bible.”

Where do you get this?

43

2011-2012 DC MP3s: Partial sets from Fri & Sat!

by yknot in

zip: http://www.sendspace.com/file/fg9cex.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/rh8gbd.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/e5392b.

Maze

Apostasy - same ol', same ol'. Partly right in that those who have been mistreated in the congo are often shaken into reassessing their views about the Org. Otherwise, it's the usual missing the point and 'don't touch anything remotely apostate with a 10 ft. pole'; 'trust those that God has chosen, i.e. us'; 'don't bite the hand that fed you.'

Apostasy is a destructive pathology that sets in when a person starts taking backwards steps away from Jehovah's Organization.

Beware, brothers, for fear there should ever develop in any one of you a wicked heart lacking faith by drawing away from the living God; but keep on exhorting one another each day, as long as it may be called “Today,” for fear any one of you should become hardened by the deceptive power of sin. Hebrews 3:12-13

Case in point, I've observed the arguments that apostates have wagered and my faith isn't shaken.

However, brothers, respecting the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we request of you not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2

41

World Destruction

by Maze in

i remember an alternative song released in the 1980's.. .

nothing has changed since then for the better, only for the worse.

will humanity bring the world to a permanent end if divine intervention wasn't a factor to take into consideration?

Maze

Disease? Nothing compared to the Black Death or Bubonic Plague - no, not even AIDS.

The reason the Black Death or Bubonic Plague claimed so many lives in the 1300's is because medical science hadn't advanced in contemporary society to the health care options we have now in developed countries. What do you think the death-toll for AIDS would be if it wasn't for drugs like AZT and Emtriva. The real issue is the number of diseases and their overall mortality patterns that have infected mankind in the 20th century.

Pollution? The progress across the past 50 years in US cities air and water has been almost miraculous. Does the Cuyahoga River catch fire anymore? Has lead in the US environment plunged?

There's been a lot of research conducted by credible scientists about pollution, climate change and recent weather trends.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/03/070306-pollution-storms.html

Asia Pollution Changing World's Weather, Scientists Say

Pollution in Asia is altering global weather patterns by creating larger clouds and more intense storms, a new study says.

The findings are the first definitive link between human activities and significant shifts in storm patterns that influence weather worldwide, the researchers write.

41

World Destruction

by Maze in

i remember an alternative song released in the 1980's.. .

nothing has changed since then for the better, only for the worse.

will humanity bring the world to a permanent end if divine intervention wasn't a factor to take into consideration?

Maze

Oh, and more thing that has always appeared to me as a Watchtower deception: Rev. 11 "bring to ruin those ruining the earth"

Baloney! Where is your PROOF for an environmental context for this text? Who can prove it has anything to do with pollution?

Genesis 6:12 refers to the earth being ruined by wickedness and violence. I am unaware of any proof for a 'snail darter/ effluent/pesticide context' for this scripture within the Bible. This is how the Watchtower uses circular reasoning to trick people into belief as in 'well, we see the earth being "ruined" in these last days, don't we?'

If you wanna interpret Revelation using the rest of the Bible, you are stuck with Genesis 6.... and I don't think Noah had any cars or factories in his day.

metatron

Feel free to observe how Genesis 6:12 and Revelation 11:18 are rendered in other Bible translations.

http://bible.cc/genesis/6-12.htm

God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. New International Version
http://bible.cc/revelation/11-18.htm

The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great--and for destroying those who destroy the earth." New International Version

This reinforces the meaning of ruining the earth's physical environment as defined in Revelation 11:18.

41

World Destruction

by Maze in

i remember an alternative song released in the 1980's.. .

nothing has changed since then for the better, only for the worse.

will humanity bring the world to a permanent end if divine intervention wasn't a factor to take into consideration?

Maze

Tell me Maze, when in human history (not the mythical Garden of Eden) were things better than today?

There's more evidence for creation than mythical ape-men.

41

World Destruction

by Maze in

i remember an alternative song released in the 1980's.. .

nothing has changed since then for the better, only for the worse.

will humanity bring the world to a permanent end if divine intervention wasn't a factor to take into consideration?

Maze

Tell me Maze, when in human history (not the mythical Garden of Eden) were things better than today?

uw chap. 6 p. 46 par. 1 The Issue That All Creation Has to Face

When rebellion broke out in Eden a serious issue was raised that affects all creation. Approaching Eve, Satan implied that she and her husband Adam were being seriously deprived.

If the world was a bowl of cherries up to the Biblically foretold last days, the issue that Satan raised in the Garden of Eden would have long since been answered.

And in answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet. “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. Matthew 24:4-8

But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 2 Timothy 3:1-7

But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give [their] reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth. Revelation 11:18

These signs of the last days have dramatically intensified in the 20th century. It's only been in the 20th century that we've had the technology to “ruin the earth.”