Posts by botchtowersociety

97

Pat Condell on Aggressive Atheism

by cantleave in

this is pretty much how i feel.......who disagrees with this?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yjo4duhmrzk&noredirect=1.

botchtowersociety

Wait! LOL. First, there is no such thing as 'atheistic' values. Atheism does not come with a set of values.

Which is why atheists never acheive any sort of coherent social structure without adopting some set of values that is not itself atheism. We've beat the atheistic governments drum here for a while, but atheists only acheived power by adopting a worldview such as Marxism, which in my opinion functioned as a sort of a-theistic state quasi-religion. Humanism and nationalism can function in this role as well. Objectivsim too. Some atheists even retain traditional religion, along with its values. I know a few.

317

Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?

by Christ Alone in

just by knowing what will happen, that doesn't mean that we can prevent or cause something to happen.

my knowing that does not prevent them the free will of making the choice.. it's the same with god.

if god is not restricted to existence in the present, then the future is known by god because god indwells the future as well as the present and the past.

botchtowersociety

A timeless existence where past, present and future don't apply? How does that work, exactly? Time means nothing, past, present and future don't apply. Does anything happen? Does everything happen at once?

That's something to ponder. Eternity, like infinity, is something our minds are ill equipped to grasp. It is something outside of ordinary human experience.

317

Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?

by Christ Alone in

just by knowing what will happen, that doesn't mean that we can prevent or cause something to happen.

my knowing that does not prevent them the free will of making the choice.. it's the same with god.

if god is not restricted to existence in the present, then the future is known by god because god indwells the future as well as the present and the past.

botchtowersociety

Let's do a thought experiment. Let's say we have a time machine, it is Monday, and travel one week into the future. On Sunday we see that JWoods has had his Ferrari detailed at some point during the week. We now travel back to where we originally were in time. Does our mere knowledge of the fact that JWoods detailed his Ferrari compel him to do it, or was it his free choice?

317

Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?

by Christ Alone in

just by knowing what will happen, that doesn't mean that we can prevent or cause something to happen.

my knowing that does not prevent them the free will of making the choice.. it's the same with god.

if god is not restricted to existence in the present, then the future is known by god because god indwells the future as well as the present and the past.

botchtowersociety

Knowing what someone will CHOOSE to do with with thier own free will is NOT effecting free will at all.

In other words, to know something happens is not the same as causing it to happen.

317

Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?

by Christ Alone in

just by knowing what will happen, that doesn't mean that we can prevent or cause something to happen.

my knowing that does not prevent them the free will of making the choice.. it's the same with god.

if god is not restricted to existence in the present, then the future is known by god because god indwells the future as well as the present and the past.

botchtowersociety

The post you said to re-read was the one where you told me to re-read.

I meant 9108, sorry.

317

Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?

by Christ Alone in

just by knowing what will happen, that doesn't mean that we can prevent or cause something to happen.

my knowing that does not prevent them the free will of making the choice.. it's the same with god.

if god is not restricted to existence in the present, then the future is known by god because god indwells the future as well as the present and the past.

botchtowersociety

Time is still involved.

That's not the definition I am using. There are several. From the link:

Theists say that God is eternally existent . How this is understood depends on which definition of eternity is used. On one hand, God may exist in eternity, a timeless existence where categories of past, present, and future just do not apply.

The bolded is what I mean by the use if the term.

317

Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?

by Christ Alone in

just by knowing what will happen, that doesn't mean that we can prevent or cause something to happen.

my knowing that does not prevent them the free will of making the choice.. it's the same with god.

if god is not restricted to existence in the present, then the future is known by god because god indwells the future as well as the present and the past.

botchtowersociety

It 100% means that because you cannot choose any other way because, if you did, then God really didn't have any foreknowledge.

Read my previous post 9110.

317

Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?

by Christ Alone in

just by knowing what will happen, that doesn't mean that we can prevent or cause something to happen.

my knowing that does not prevent them the free will of making the choice.. it's the same with god.

if god is not restricted to existence in the present, then the future is known by god because god indwells the future as well as the present and the past.

botchtowersociety

For the record, I still don't understand the concept of "existing outside of time".

Can anyone explain it better than what has been expounded in this thread?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternity

317

Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?

by Christ Alone in

just by knowing what will happen, that doesn't mean that we can prevent or cause something to happen.

my knowing that does not prevent them the free will of making the choice.. it's the same with god.

if god is not restricted to existence in the present, then the future is known by god because god indwells the future as well as the present and the past.

botchtowersociety

We exist in Time, and only in the current instant. We do not exist in the past, nor in the future. Only right now. God is eternal. The future is no different than the past for God. Us knowing someone's past choice does not negate their choice. The same for God with respect to future choices. There is no prediction. It has already happened. It isn't even foreknowledge.

317

Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?

by Christ Alone in

just by knowing what will happen, that doesn't mean that we can prevent or cause something to happen.

my knowing that does not prevent them the free will of making the choice.. it's the same with god.

if god is not restricted to existence in the present, then the future is known by god because god indwells the future as well as the present and the past.

botchtowersociety

I agree with Christ Alone. There is no incompatibility between divine knowledge and freedom of the will. Just because God knows what will happen, does not mean you did not choose. Either way, the question is moot for a being that exists outside of time.