Apologies for bumping this up.
Maximus
JoinedPosts by Maximus
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11
Need Assistance re Judge R
by Maximus injust received a telephone call from a non-jw close friend who does not post on the board.
for some time he has been writing a very detailed biography of judge rutherford that will be meticulously documented.
he's spent many weeks visiting the judge's roots in missouri and elsewhere, with very informative results.
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Need Assistance re Judge R
by Maximus injust received a telephone call from a non-jw close friend who does not post on the board.
for some time he has been writing a very detailed biography of judge rutherford that will be meticulously documented.
he's spent many weeks visiting the judge's roots in missouri and elsewhere, with very informative results.
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Maximus
Just received a telephone call from a non-JW close friend who does not post on the board. For some time he has been writing a very detailed biography of Judge Rutherford that will be meticulously documented. He's spent many weeks visiting the Judge's roots in Missouri and elsewhere, with very informative results. I've been impressed by his thoroughness.
Rather than simply repeat old stories, he wishes to include factual information on Rutherford's last days--literally. Has info, just needs confirmation.
When I first started posting, I didn't associate screen names and material written. At least one person had personal if not direct knowledge, including ties with JFR's "nutritionist" and a housekeeper.
Could you post me privately? Or if someone can find the thread--I cannot--could you send me or paste relevant info?
I'll be writing another person here who I am sure has solid information.
Thanks!
Maximus
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Why Are You Here?
by larc inthe question, "why are you here?
" is simple enough, and your answer may be straightforward.
however, when i asked that of myself, i find that my answer is pretty complicated.
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Maximus
larc,
I must have missed your post earlier, but glad I saw it. Thanks for saying what you do.
My wife and I had the identical discussion ...
See my post to ad hominem by philo.
Maximus
Avoiding Mickey Rooney Class
"Ask Mickey the time of day and he gives you a lecture on watchmaking.
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Ad hominem
by philo inwhy do we sometimes attack people rather than ideas?.
we lack the mental reach to chase an argument further, or we just can't be bothered to, the issue clouds over, we begin to realise the limits of our capacity, and all we can see clearly is the person who brought us to this unpleasant place: so we lash out at them, our 'opponent'.. ideas are difficult and people seem easy.
the truth is that people are much more difficult, and when we attack them, it is not usually with understanding, rarely does it advance the debate.
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Maximus
Amazing, your response suggests you are taking my remarks as being to you personally as to comments you wrote. Please don't read anything in to my post, I simply had an opportunity to say something just like everyone else. I thought philo's points were well made and I wanted to associate myself with them.
:: And I find that those who visit such forums and make these judgments, as did your friend, without understanding human dynamics, are either very ignorant, or very callous, or assholes.
That's quite a leap, to assume a simple personal observation is made without understanding of human dynamics. I'm seeing many posts all over the board from folks who are reeling, who are calling for a better way.
I submit to you that to make a sweeping assertion that they are all ignorant, or very callous, or assholes, is in itself the height of ignorance. The person I refer to is a professional who understands human dynamics very well, and so do I; you miss the point.
What happens here is someone strings a couple of words together and another feels obliges to translate, dissect and expand them ad nauseam, then the originator replies in kind, escalating. I won't do that, whether misunderstood or not.
Neither he nor I need a lecture.
:: Come on! People need a break ... they were beat down enough as JWs, why keep telling them to grow up and start trying give structure and controlling them.
Whaaaat? Structure? Controlling? You've made another gigantic leap. I just observed a lotta people need to grow up. No smiley, no sneery. Not forced, not coerced. "Lotta" is light, not meant to elicit a prickly response.
I'd like to explore ways of giving people tools in an atmosphere where they CAN grow up. But that's another story.
I have no intention of discussing this further. Hope you and yours have a wonderful Fourth!
Warmly,
Maximus -
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Maximus
Goodbye, flamethrower.
You're the weakest link.
M
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Ad hominem
by philo inwhy do we sometimes attack people rather than ideas?.
we lack the mental reach to chase an argument further, or we just can't be bothered to, the issue clouds over, we begin to realise the limits of our capacity, and all we can see clearly is the person who brought us to this unpleasant place: so we lash out at them, our 'opponent'.. ideas are difficult and people seem easy.
the truth is that people are much more difficult, and when we attack them, it is not usually with understanding, rarely does it advance the debate.
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Maximus
Right on, philo. I don't want to add more words, words, words.
Someone for whom I have great respect came in the other day, and looked around on the board; he's done so before.
His very astute observation was that he saw all too many dazed refugees walking into a camp with hastily fashioned crutches kicked from under them. His conclusion: "I find this behavior close to cruel and unworthy."
He's absolutely right.
Please. No dissertations on why it happens, how healthy freedom is, the value of ad hominem, how okay it is to sneer, to deride--to give folks in spades what they've received from the Society for years.
Never mind changing tactics or learning to debate: lotta folks just need to grow up.
Maximus
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WTBTS membership count prediction
by Skimmer insome thoughts on statistical projections of the wtbts membership count:.
1) extrapolation (projection beyond known statistics) is hazardous for any measurement that does not derive from a simple model.
an accurate model of the wtbts membership count would have to include demographics for each of the countries, and this would have to combine population age distribution data, educational attainment data, economic data, current wtbts coverage, and (of course!
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Maximus
Drop me a note, I'll share some hamburger.
If you choose not to, I'll understand.
Max
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WTBTS membership count prediction
by Skimmer insome thoughts on statistical projections of the wtbts membership count:.
1) extrapolation (projection beyond known statistics) is hazardous for any measurement that does not derive from a simple model.
an accurate model of the wtbts membership count would have to include demographics for each of the countries, and this would have to combine population age distribution data, educational attainment data, economic data, current wtbts coverage, and (of course!
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Maximus
: Someday if a scandal does hit
Someday? At least one is upcoming soon. I received direct input Brooklyn [sic] thinks the Dateline program will blow over in a couple of weeks. I haven't stopped laughing yet.
One prediction is very easy to make: it will not blow over, the fallout will expose internal mechanisms of the organization most JWs have never seen, and there will be even more disillusioned sheep--and even more wary JW prospects. That's for openers.
While I noted AlanF's calculus previously, I think statistical models are helpful but not conclusively predictive, obviously.
How do you factor in the stubbornness and tenacity of the old guard? Or the comfortable complacency of the progressives who tut-tut but fail to do what they can? Or the survival instinct that says the organization must continue to exist, even if modified?
I think the sociological models of organizational behavior may be more helpful here, and that's why I think the Zygmunt article would be interesting to revisit. (By the way, to speak of strategic theory in connection with W leadership gives it a kind of dignity that is not deserved--much less being accurate, as those of us who have been around at the top will attest.)
When you read posts from persons like "humble," you get a glimpse into the world of glassy-eyed believers who go through the revolving door--some in, some out. Basically nice people. Fodder to be used up, then discarded.
I've paid attention to posts from persons who say, "Well, we just go to college in our area anyway; we pay no attention to the old farts." "We say 'Yes, Massa' to the CO and then proceed as usual." Is that the future organization? If so, that's change, one way or the other.
What the rank-and-file have not yet seen, nor those on this board, is the practical result of the organizational "adjustments" in the last year, including the Branch committee operation starting March 1, and what they really mean to daily decisions affecting the course of the organization. I've called attention to them, so have others.
For legal protection, the leadership must at least have the appearance of being less hierarchical. That is a requisite that looms large. If they are actually not hierarchical, then that means change. Really galling to those who have been around a long time to have to listen to the lawyers BTW!
(In the case of the pedophile policy, they should have listened to the lawyers a long time ago--they had recommended universal uniformity.)
Time to get off the soapbox,
Maximus
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Springmeir arrested: Drug's traffic
by chasson inthe information i have came from a newspaper called "the oregonian" via a .
militia watchdog list.
>weapons and white separatist literature.
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Maximus
Excellent, chasson!
Fritz Springmeier has been a loose cannon, and a thorn in the side of honest researchers, particularly regarding the so-called Illuminati and the Watchtower. Has caused many to assume that others are similarly misguided, and it has actually generated sympathy for the Society, who can easily point out how stupid some of his work is.
Time after time, those of us who have actual knowledge refute what he says, only to have him say "Prove it." Like saying George Bush murdered two women before his was married, you say it isn't true, Springmeier would say "Prove it."
Please don't give me the "Well, it COULD be routine."
I'm sure Jim Penton will share my interest in this article. Fritz Springmeier has not only sold drugs, but uses them to hallucinate. Now we know ...
Maximus
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The Heavy Toll on Children of DF'd Parents
by FreePeace innote: contains passionate language.
two years ago, i divorced my wife, (who was an alcoholic).
close to the same time, think41self and i decided to marry, and for that, we were both disfellowshipped (couldn't prove scriptural freedom, but who cares now?).
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Maximus
I went through this identical situation when my son was exactly the same age. They cruelly cut him off, that innocent lad. There are no words to describe the anguish, the total agony of that situation. Many years later the pain has diminished but not the righteous indignation and the quiet determination.
At our lunch together some time back, I told you about what I planned to do. I've done it. The gladiator persona was not taken lightly by this old general.
Your book is terrific, by the way, the principles well expressed. But I'm going to relish eating the Emperor's liver. With a nice bottle of Chianti.
My warmest to you and think4oneself -- I see that she is every bit as wonderful as you said she was.
And Farkel, I detest repetition of passages, but in this case let me pay homage to the most eloquent sentence I've seen written on this or any other board:
:: At least I was able to stop the cycle of abuse for four future famlies and grandchildren and being able to prevent the Watchtower cult from putting a choke-hold on their necks, bleed them dry, wear them out, disappoint them with lies and empty promises, destroy their lives and then cast them off like dirty laundry when they are all used up and no longer of any value to the Cult leaders.
I'm so grateful to love and be loved by individuals whom I barely know, but whose friendship I will treasure till the grave.
Maximus