Posts by maxwell

54

What has everyone done with your literature, now that you've left?

by momzcrazy in

i have boxes of literature upstairs.

i was waiting for bookshelves to get built in our new house, but now i don't want to put them all up.

i have sentimental things, like ones that were my dad's.

maxwell

I trashed it all except a few I gave away and one New World Translation that I kept. Although I'm not religious in the least, the bible is obviously important to many people. So I kept my New World Translation, and I can read many other translations online. I may still have a Watchtower 95 CD somewhere. But I don't know if it will run on my computer which is running XP now.

Had I known about the ebay potential, I might have considered it, but then there are the copyright concerns. Probably not a big risk, but not one I want to take.

30

Would Witnesses Kill If Ordered? Probably!

by metatron in

jw
friends

as a functioning cult, would jehovah's witnesses kill someone, if ordered?

i believe that many would.. while some might think this is farfetched, i can cite some examples that manifest a lack of concern.

for the lives of others, that could easily be extended into murder or manslaughter.. 1) forcing older brothers into jobs at bethel that were far too strenuous for them - as a means of.

maxwell

I don't hold strongly to the notion that Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult. I could label them a high control group, perhaps. But I don't think it is farfetched at all that they would kill if ordered or for any group of people with a strong belief in all powerful deity whom they believe has ordered killing before. I would not bet on this ever happening, but in the hypothetical situation that "governing body" of JW decided there was a new interpretation to some part of the bible, (for example the army of locusts in Revelation) and said those verses meant JW should go out and kill people, I have no doubt that some, perhaps most JW, would interpret that as a direct order from god and go out kill as many "evil" people as they could.

It isn't far-fetched at all. We presently have terrorists who refer to god or allah as the primary reason for killing, we have a president who uses evil and a God-calling as at least a part of his reason for killing, some abortion fanatics use this rational. Almost anyone who claims belief in some powerful invisible deity has the ability to kill with this rationale. I will even admit that when I was a blindly beleiving JW, I probably would have followed such an order. I certainly shunned some family members and the hypothetical situation of having to shun my own parents certainly crossed my mind a few times.

26

Poor Excuse for an Apostate

by Mum in

jw
friends

when i tell anyone i am considered an apostate, they usually think i'm joking and fall over laughing.

after thinking about it, i can understand why.

my lifestyle would prompt a farmyard chicken to take up another interest.

maxwell

Gopher,

True, the pictures I see on the apostafest threads seem to depict more fun than actively opposing.

26

Poor Excuse for an Apostate

by Mum in

jw
friends

when i tell anyone i am considered an apostate, they usually think i'm joking and fall over laughing.

after thinking about it, i can understand why.

my lifestyle would prompt a farmyard chicken to take up another interest.

maxwell

Maybe I have the wrong image of an apostate. When I hear the word apostate, specifically with regard to a former Jehovah's Witness, I simply think of someone who is actively opposing Watchtower society organization in some way. I never knew debauchery was a part of the profile. In fact, I would think that some apostates who have simply converted to another Christian religion highly disapprove of my relatively mild but sinful (according to the bible) lifestyle.

I'm certainly not actively opposing the Watchtower society in any way. But I think on a worldwide scale, I'm relatively mild in any debauchery as well.

I probably eat more meat than you, but recently I have tried eating less meat. I do soyburgers sometimes and I added meatless grounds to my sphaghetti this week.

My life is much simpler now than it was when I was a JW. I sold my car soon after I left the JW. I didn't need it any more. I still have my suits, but I can count on one hand the number of times I have worn one since leaving. We are supposedly "business casual" at work, so I can be rather plain.

I go out a little more now. But it is mostly to jazz clubs. I may yet venture to some more risque places with perhaps more raw music, but I doubt that I'll ever enjoy anything else more than some straight ahead stuff. I will never smoke. I'll have three or four drinks over the course of an evening. But I have never been drunk and I don't anticipate that I ever will be. It's not an experience that I long to have or see the need to have.

I have no interest in gambling either beyond giving a few dollars to a charity raffle once or twice a year.

If there is any area where there is a chance to be very debaucherous, it would be sex. But even there, I don't think I'd be really obvious about it in public. Not that I'd hide my activity. But I'm not an exhibitionist.

Although I am not actively opposed to the Watchtower society, I have no problem telling people some of their more quirky beliefs. But then I have no problem telling people in general what I think about god and the bible. I have never referred to myself as an apostate and I suppose there is good reason. Maybe I'm just a heathen sinner.

171

Have you changed your mind about ABORTION?

by nicolaou in

i'm not after a discussion on the rights or wrongs on abortion, what i'm asking is whether or not your views have evolved over time.. perhaps leaving the watchtower was enough to allow your true feelings on abortion to find expression.

maybe abortion is one of those subjects where you still find yourself in agreement with your old jw self.

did becoming a mother change your perspective in any way or solidify your views?.

maxwell

If there are couples begging for a child, and they are not getting one, it is not for the lack of available children. Either they are not fit to be parents or they haven't found a baby that is the cute enough or that is the right color. There are orphans begging for parents. Many never get adopted and then get kicked out of the foster care system at 18. There is no shortage of children available for adoption.

Abortion is a better option than the chance for adoption in my opinion. I am not moved by attempts to sensationalize abortion by calling it murder. It is birth control of last resort. And a sound economic decision in many situations.

171

Have you changed your mind about ABORTION?

by nicolaou in

i'm not after a discussion on the rights or wrongs on abortion, what i'm asking is whether or not your views have evolved over time.. perhaps leaving the watchtower was enough to allow your true feelings on abortion to find expression.

maybe abortion is one of those subjects where you still find yourself in agreement with your old jw self.

did becoming a mother change your perspective in any way or solidify your views?.

maxwell

As a Jehovah's Witness, I felt abortion was wrong because that was what we were taught. But I never really had a strong feeling about it, and I've always felt that those who picketed abortion clinics or worse were extremist. Now my view is basically pro-choice.

However, I also agree with others that a much better choice would be to choose some form of birth control. Unfortunately, there is still some resistance to some forms of birth control. I think it is ridiculous that it is easier to get an abortion than it is to get a vasectomy or a tubal ligation. Sterilization should be available immediately on demand. Unfortunately, it is not practical to determine some objective measure for determining who should be allowed to procreate. But given the number of people who are horrible failures as parents, there should be no obstacles to permanent contraception for those who want to be responsible and prevent procreation.

25

Funny things you used to believe

by 5thGeneration in

jw
friends

one of my classics was because the bethel printing room was so clean then it must be jehovah's organization.. now i realize, of course, that most businesses keep their operations equally clean.. doh!.

maxwell

I used to believe many funny things, for example, that there are supernatural beings up there watching us constantly some with the ability to have an awareness of what all 6 billion people are doing at any one time.

Specifically regarding Jehovah's Witnesses, I also put the elders up there. I believed the company line that Jehovah's spirit directed their appointment, so you never had to worry about their decisions. I believed that all congregations were basically the same because Jehovah's spirit was directing his organization. When people would tell me that they got along better at this congregation over that congregation, I would think that was ridiculous.

My undoing was gradual, but there was significant unraveling of my previous worldview including this belief all powerful spirit force guiding the congregations when I stood on stage and went through the motions, and made the sounds for a praryer while not believing a word that came out of my mouth. Everybody said "amen" anyway.

16

Uniting American Families Act

by eisenstein in

jw
friends

dear friends,.

i am posting this for a close friend who is very involved in trying to get equal rights for everyone including marriage for homosexuals.

we have talked deeply about spiritual things and how we both escaped mind-controlling cults.

maxwell

How about the government stop handing out marriage license/certificates at all. If you want to call yourself married, have your ceremony and go right ahead with whatever configuration you choose.

At least this was my most recent feeling. But I seem to remember some politician commenting that marriage automatically kicks in on the order of a 1000 automatic provisions between the government and two opposite gender people. If we required people to make all those agreements through normal means (contracts, power of attorney, etc.) would that complicate things more and create more government? Maybe, but as of now, I still think that would be a better solution. I doubt very many people are aware of everyone of those automatic agreements that they enter into when they sign a marriage license. It would be much more reasonable for people to be aware of each and every agreement they enter into. We could at least get rid of the divorce court industry. We already have plenty of courts to handle contractual disputes. But the expansion of the contractual law industry probably wouldn't absorb all the losses in the divorce industry, so there's a bunch of lawyers and judges who wouldn't like this idea. In fact, I'm surprised there aren't more of these so called "activist" judges and lawyers fighting to allow gay marriage. There should be no loss in the marriage ceremony industry. People can still buy diamonds, expensive dresses and spend tens of thousands of dollars on a one day party. There should be no loss in the honeymoon industry. Neither of these has anything to do with the government.

137

I hate Walmart!

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

i rarely ever set foot in the place and will go out of my way to avoid shopping there.

tonight i made the mistake of giving walmart the benefit of the doubt and walked in the door.. they didn't have the main item i was looking for, but they did have one other small item.

i headed to the front to check out only to find they had only a few check-outs open and all of the lines were far too long.

maxwell

I wouldn't say I hate Walmart. But I don't shop there. I'd like to say that I make this choice mainly because of their business practices. But I do shop at Target. I am sure Target and K-mart and any of their other large competitors have similar business practices. I think some would argue that their competitors are forced into similar tactics because the leader Walmart uses bad business practices (treating employees unfairly, using cheap labor in bad conditions in foreign countries, etc.). Some would say that if you can force Walmart to change that others would follow.

In any case, there is no Walmart near me, so it's pretty easy for me to avoid them, though I'd like think I would still avoid them even if they were a near option. I'd have to take long regional rides on buses that don't run very often to get to a Walmart. They never build pedestrian friendly stores. They are always surrounded by huge parking lots. Before Walmart went out of vogue, I think DC was trying to lure a Walmart into town, but they decided not to build because they couldn't have their huge surface parking lot. I am not sure if that was because of zoning code or simply not enough space.

On the other hand, there are at least two Targets that are easily accessible for me. One is right off a metro rail stop. The other is a short local bus ride or a short bicycle ride. There's a nice bicycle rack right by the front door. I've never seen a bike rack at a Walmart. Of course, it's been a few years since I've been near a Walmart. There are parking lots around the Targets, but not nearly as huge wastelands of space as the things around Walmart. Further, there is a Target going up in my neighborhood. If there is parking, it will be under or over the store. The store will have a street front entrance. I must admit that this Target is part of swift trend of gentrification in the neighborhood, but that's another story. Hopefully the neighborhood will not lose all its character and start looking like the suburbs with all of these big chains (Marshall's and Best Buy, among others, are also coming). But at least it does not revolve around the personal automobile as the primary means of getting to the store.

23

Was Drifting Away or Outrightly Leaving Easier Than You Thought?

by minimus in

jw
friends

maxwell

Leaving outright, or at least intentionally getting disfellowshipped for an indiscretion was fairly easy for me. I didn't have much of a social life in the organization despite being raised as a JW. But part of that is my personality. I've made a few friends since leaving. These are friendships that do not have religious belief requirements. I participate in a couple of activities that allow me to socialize with other people without any kind of religious obligations. That's been great.