Posts by Mazza

13

How long it took you to find out

by one in

jw
friends

how longo it took you to find out your mate was cheating you, kidding.

really how long it took you to find out the truth about the truth or at least to become really distrust about the whole thing, and why.. to start i just knew, by summer 1974, that big a was not comming on 1975. the oil embargo, nixon etc kept me worry for a while.

i even resigned a very lucrative and promising job to piooner.

Mazza

I remember getting a fit of hysterics @ the book study one nite over Ceder Point. Hubby and me always had a bit of trouble swallowing the modern day fulfilment stuff applying to JW and their little events that they seemed to think fit the bill. Cedar Point came up time and time again. One nite hubby whispered to me "Oh no, the brothers have been arrested again", and me being more than happy to play along whispered back "what for this time"? Hubby's reply was "LOITERING AT CEDAR POINT"! We just cracked it and sat their shaking in suppressed laughter until one of us had to pretend a toilet break! They really did press their luck with Cedar Point!!

Btw One, it took us about 4 years in all to finally walk away. This from initially thinking that there were things that didn't add up, and praying for more faith, and working on our faith, which worked for up to six months initially but sooner or later more things would surface that didn't sit right. Eventually we were overwhelmed by things that weren't right and even though we kept going out of habit, it got to a point where we realised we couldn't go on. We had small children and we knew we couldn't subject them to such a stupid way of life. When we stopped going to meetings we were very clear in our minds that we had no choice and that it was all over.

Marilyn

39

Anyone Remember The Chaperone Thing?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

back when i was a lusty young lad of 17, a certain sister caught my eye - i swear that she could make her eyelashes beckon - and i duly decided to pay court to said sister.. however, it was not to be so simple.

round about that time, it would have been mid-60's, the wtbts were having a real downer on anyone who wore a short skirt (not me), danced the twist or grew their hair (me) over their ears.. but, the worse thing was still to come.

folks, i am talking about chaperoning!

Mazza

The congregation had a bit of trouble chaperoning us coz we had already been dating a couple of years when we got involved with the WTS. The boy friend owned a two seater sports car and attended university so they had a whole host of things they were itching to change about us, but they must have been nervous of frightening us off. They had to wait until we were well and truly IN before laying down the law with us. This came in the form of virtually insisting we get married not long after we were baptised. I was 19 & he was 20 and he was still at uni. But they got their way. We married and it was really miserable for a long time. We were soooo poor and way too young. WE are still together but no thanx to them. We married in 1972 and stopped meetings in November 1979. Disfellowshipped together in 1981 for no longer believing it was the truth. Have had a great life and have come to appreciate that there are far worse things than having sex out of wedlock! Far worse!

Marilyn (btw they also put the pressure on to sell the sports car. But we bought another one 5 yrs ago)

21

Could I have your thoughts???

by mindfield in

jw
friends

more specifically, could you tell me your thoughts on verses such as:.

matthew 24:14. and could anyone give me some factual stats on the fact that jw's dont actually preach worldwide, or at least aren't recognized worldwide???.

and yes, i do need to be reassured!

Mazza

Out of the nearly 6 billion people in the world, the good news according to Jehovahs Witnesses is only preached in a small percentage of the world. There are 1.2 billion people in China alone. Indonesia has a massive population and added to it there is the rest of Asia and India who has very little JW activity. Even though the WTS sends so called missionaries to these locations, their efforts couldn't possibly be said to be fulfilling Math 24. 14. There must be about 1 witness in China for every half a million Chinese. Now even at one hundred and fifty hours per month, the WTS can hardly expect the missionaries to keep up. I would guestimate that there are about 3 billion people in the world who have never even heard of JWs.

Anyway the Witnesses squib out of the world wide preaching work. They say that it's not necessary to go everywhere. It's enough that their beliefs are represented in these countries with populations too large for the Society to deal with. So we have a situation where by witnesses go door knocking the same territory in suburbian America, UK, Australia, NZ, Canada, every 3 months - because for some reason white nations are more deserving or receptive than foreign folks in difficult to cover places. Somehow JW authorities are more than content with their explanation of their efforts and Math 24. 14. Go figure!!!!

Marilyn

11

Shunning and then saying its a loving thing to do?

by serenaj92 in

jw
friends

i realized the bondage i was under as one of jehovah's witnesses and left the organization.

it pressed fear, paranoia, and even anger in me that i wasn't used to.

i started to resent being one.

Mazza

Serena, Good luck with the family. I liked your comment about how they tell you to forgive the imperfect brothers for their endless tiresome behavior, yet there is no forgiveness for those who chooses to walk away. I walked away for some of the same reasons that you did. It just didn't feel right - in my gut!! Both my husband and I sensed that it wasn't working. So we did the honest thing and faced up to it and walked away after 10 yrs of active service. We were d'fd and for 20 yrs I've known the wrath of the WTS. I can never get back what they have robbed me of. Happy years with my relatives. Hey, my 21 yr old met my brother for the first time since he was a baby last week. What a damned shame it all is. It is beyond me to comprehend how a body of people can inflict so much misery on others and be so totally oblivious.

Anyway.......... sometimes we have to accept that which we cannot change.

warm regards
Marilyn

10

Discovery channel's big JW show!

by Dan B in

jw
friends

i just finished watching a show on discovery health channel called blood-cure or killer.

it was a history of blood transfusions, and where that area of medicine is heading in the future.

the first mention of the jw's involved an interview with a bearded man (?

Mazza

Hi Dan, Great stuff!!! It's about time that JW's got a taste of their own medicine. How many times do WT officials stand before the media and misrepresent what they believe. Smarmy brothers sitting there with self satisfied looks telling the world things like "we don't split up families" and that everyone is "free"to choose whether to have blood or not. Lies by omision!!! So how absolutely delightful that this bearded guy was found and was given free reign to waffle away unchecked by reality. I can just hear all the dubs complaining about the media's lack of truthful reporting. Mmmmm! You made my day!!

Marilyn

10

How the WTS Grows RICH!!!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

how the wts grows rich!!!

principle loan: $200,000 to congregation buy land and build hall.. interest rate: 3%.

loan term: 30 years.. the total paid back over 30 year: $303,555.

Mazza

The capital growth that you gestimate is probaby way out. I know when our first hall was built, they didn't really do terribly well when it was sold 20 yrs later to raise the money towards a bigger and better hall - they probably realised $70K AUD cash - which is better than nothing over 20 yrs, but not a fortune. However I'm thinking of properties in prime realestate areas such as here in Hong Kong. The Bethel house in Ede Road Kowloon Tong would have to be worth 200 million HK dollars maybe more (divide by 7.8 for US dollar rate). Property prices in HK have suppassed Japan. Speaking of Japan, the Society is bound to have worked the same deal there as they have in HK. Bought in good areas 40 or 50 yrs ago and have sat tight ever since. Just the Bethel houses alone in the major cities would be worth a fortune. AND who do they belong to? Not the local congregation that's for sure.

Marilyn

27

lucid dream, wicked spirits, demons questions!!

by gotcha in

jw
friends

having a chinese background, it has been incorporated in our culture to believe in wicked spirits and that sort of stuff..i was wondering if any here could enlighten me with some of their knowledge with regard this subject..my mom's core reason of believing that the jws are the true religion is because of the fact that she found peace and she said that 'wicked spirits' stopped attacking her when she became a jw..(she said that sometimes she felt that wicked spirits want to rape her or something while she was sleeping/dreaming?

)i sometimes think that this is pure imagination but who am i to judge it is her experience anyways..some say that this may be a medical problem but do any of you believe that this might be true?

do wicked spirits/demons really want to 'disturb' us humans?

Mazza

SaintSatan, This BBC series also featured a guy who was slowly dying of a degenerative brain disease. As the disease ruined aspects of his memory and personality he became very artistic. Something he'd never been before. He'd had no artisitc talent or interest up until then. He was doing fantastic paintings though. The program postulated about this phenomenon - and it might have been along the lines of what you said.

With regards the experiement with the electrical impulses, I have also heard it said that certain chemistry patterns of the brain may account for some people's so called spirituality. Interesting. I have always wondered why I'm so non spiritual. My chemistry is all wrong!!

Marilyn

27

lucid dream, wicked spirits, demons questions!!

by gotcha in

jw
friends

having a chinese background, it has been incorporated in our culture to believe in wicked spirits and that sort of stuff..i was wondering if any here could enlighten me with some of their knowledge with regard this subject..my mom's core reason of believing that the jws are the true religion is because of the fact that she found peace and she said that 'wicked spirits' stopped attacking her when she became a jw..(she said that sometimes she felt that wicked spirits want to rape her or something while she was sleeping/dreaming?

)i sometimes think that this is pure imagination but who am i to judge it is her experience anyways..some say that this may be a medical problem but do any of you believe that this might be true?

do wicked spirits/demons really want to 'disturb' us humans?

Mazza

Seeker, I'd like to read Carl Sagan's book about this. I'm wondering about the occult as experienced in Africa for example. I've seen good travel programs where they spend time in places that practice occult rituals and it can look very spooky. What's a trance anyway?

Gotcha I know what you are saying. Western culture has turned the occult into entertainment and has desensiticed us to quite a degree. I know that some of the ancient beliefs have much greater fear and respect for the so called "dark side". I still don't know that there is any scientific proof to be found for any of it. Asian cultures have many anciant customs but just because they go back a long time doesn't make them any more likely to be true. Look how Chinese men believe powdered rhinocerus horn enhances their sex life. It's crap of course, but like Sirona says - if they believe it then it works for them. We have to be careful of believing second hand information. Unless you've seen someone's body split in two etc, then you should train your mind to be skeptical. Look how that group in the Philipines were touting a cure for cancer by inserting their hands into the flesh of the patient and extracting the tumor. It was all proved to be trickery. I've always been prepared to listen to people who claim superhuman feats, but I make sure I leave my BS detector running the whole time.

Good subject though.....

Marilyn

12

what me worry?

by rekless in

jw
friends

i've waisted 35 years of my life.

i sit here and listen to a bunch of people that are fighting the wtbts.

ken has all kind of stuff proving the demonization of the wtbts and we waste our time trying to convince the dead heads that the org.

Mazza

Reckless, To be honest most of the stuff on here doesn't interest me. Some of us feel things more accutely than others and some of us have ways of telling ourselves that it's alright - I've been dealing with being d'fd for 20 yrs - I've tried em' all.. It's only my siblings and relatives that shun me as my parents refused to do as they were told (and they sure paid for it by being "marked" by the congregaton). I go thru periods where it gets me down unutterably. The idiocy of it all is beyond description. That's why a lot of what is said here doesn't interest me - it doesn't help. It just doesn't touch the spot where it hurts! All this ranting and raving about what needs to be done to make the WTS viable. Sheesh - it's like asking what might be done to help Osama bin Larden like Americans. But then I have to appreciate that others are at different places to me and they need to hash and rehash this stuff. Stuff I think is utterly pointless. There is nothing that can be done to fix the Tower - it's sick from the foundation up!

Anything that can destroy family relationships to the degree that this Organisation has is sicko big time. The one thing in this world that gives us true happiness and joy is our family. Hey I think even cold blooded murderers have the right to be loved by their family - even though they are pushing their luck! Family should be everything to us.

I'm feeling a bit raw at the moment too, because I've just had some contact with my jw brother and it's demonstrated to me yet again how unbelievably cruel and painful their "loving" arrangment is. The event is one I'm not prepared to talk about here, but it's enough to make me sympathise with you more than you can know.

Marilyn

27

lucid dream, wicked spirits, demons questions!!

by gotcha in

jw
friends

having a chinese background, it has been incorporated in our culture to believe in wicked spirits and that sort of stuff..i was wondering if any here could enlighten me with some of their knowledge with regard this subject..my mom's core reason of believing that the jws are the true religion is because of the fact that she found peace and she said that 'wicked spirits' stopped attacking her when she became a jw..(she said that sometimes she felt that wicked spirits want to rape her or something while she was sleeping/dreaming?

)i sometimes think that this is pure imagination but who am i to judge it is her experience anyways..some say that this may be a medical problem but do any of you believe that this might be true?

do wicked spirits/demons really want to 'disturb' us humans?

Mazza

Gotcha, this is a fascinating question. Firstly I have to say that I don't know the answer to it. However, I watched a series by the BBC about the brain a few months ago and it certainly seems that some people are prone to these kinds of experiences. In fact, scientists have been able to produce these reactions in people by stimulating certain parts of the brain with electrical pulses.

You would have beens seriously rivited to this program - I so wish I could remember more to tell you. I will ask David as he saw the program too and we both realised that there are often very rational explanations for what some people claim to be supernatural events.

I feel we are only just beginning to unlock the secrets about the brain and how it works. I believe your mother very probably imagines spirit attacks. Mmmm, is she very attractive??? Hehehe - couldn't resist tha (Aussie humor)t. I have never had anything like a spirit attack, and I'm not that bloody ugly :-)))) Actually though I am prone to weird behavior in my sleep. A lot of talking and seeing things and ordering people about. Sometimes I wake up in mid performance, and feel a right idiot. My tendency to let out blood curdling screams upsets my husband a lot when I do it. I mean to say no one wants to be woken in the dead of night with a mad woman next to them screaming their head off. I could always misinterpret this stuff as being supernatural - as I have at times imagined that I've seen things and I often react as if I have. But I know with certainty that I'm asleep and my mind is doing all this stuff (especially when there's a full mood) HOWL!!!!. Hey's it's Halloween tomorrow? What a good sense of timing you have!!

Another aspect of this is: If the demon stuff (according to the wTS) is true, how come the rest of it is such crap? The WTS is basically wrong in just about most of what they do and say, so I tend to think that there has to be a better explanation about the demon stuff for your mom - though I realise that getting her to believe that is another matter entirely.

good luck hehehe!!
Marilyn (who has often pondered the same question - based on what others claim to experience)