by mindfield 21 Replies latest jw friends
More specifically, could you tell me your thoughts on verses such as:
Matthew 24:14
And could anyone give me some factual stats on the fact that JW's dont actually preach worldwide, or at least aren't recognized worldwide???
Thanks
And yes, I do need to be reassured!
And why would Matthew 24:14 apply to a very small religious body?
How many millions of Bibles have been distributed by various Bible Societies? Besides, the "good news" to be preached is that of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Cor. chapter 15) and not that of some invisible second coming of Christ in 1914 (which the JWs admit they didn't understand until way after the fact).
Now, who is more known for preaching the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as their main message? Jehovah's Witnesses or Christians?
CatholicGuy
Jehovah's Witnesses claim thaqt the preaching work they do fulfills the prophetic words of Jesus Christ recorded in Matthew 24:14. There we find that Christ said that, "This good news of the kingdom will be preached to the whole world as a testimony to all the nations." Jehovah's Witnesses also tell us that, "Christ and his apostles preached the good news of the kingdom." And they assure us, "We preach the good news of the kingdom." The problem is that simply attaching the same title to their message does not mean the message preached by Jehovah's Witnesses is the same message that was preached by the apostles.
"The good news of the kingdom" preached by Jehovah's Witnesses is that "the kingdom of God" is a heavenly government that was set up in the year 1914 AD, and that this heavenly government will soon bring paradise conditions to the earth.
Now, I ask you, is this really the message that the apostles preached? Was this their "good news of the kingdom"? Did they spend their time telling people about an invisible heavenly government that would be set up in the year 1914 and would shortly thereafter bring paradise conditions to the earth?
The Bible contains no record of them having preached such a message. It tells us what the message was that the apostles preached. As the apostle Paul said, "We preach Christ crucified." In fact, Paul said that in his ministry he had "resolved to know nothing" "except Jesus Christ and him crucified." (1 Cor. 1:23, 2:2) The apostles spent all their time telling people about Jesus Christ and what He had done for them. The "good news" they preached was that if people would only believe in their hearts that Jesus Christ's sacrificial death was a sufficient payment for all their sins, God would forgive them completely for all of their unrighteousness, and He would then give them the gift of eternal life.
This is the "good news" which the apostles preached. And since it is the only "good news" they preached, it must be the "good news of the kingdom" which Jesus said would be preached "in all the inhabited earth, for a witness to all the nations." (Matt. 24:14)
But how can the good news of God's forgiveness which He grants us because of Jesus Christ's sacrificial death be the "good news of the kingdom"? After all, this message says nothing about any kind of government. And isn't a kingdom a government?
To answer these questions we must understand what "God's kingdom" is. Though Jehovah's Witnesses are fond of repeating the words, "A kingdom is a government," that is not a completely accurate statement. At least not according to the dictionary's definition of a "kingdom." Dictionaries tell us that a "kingdom" is "a political or territorial unit that is ruled by a king or a queen." (The American Heritage Dictionary) Now, the government which rules a kingdom is certainly a part of the kingdom, but only a part. It is not the kingdom.
When Herod Antipas told the daughter of Herodias, "Whatever you ask I will give you, up to half my kingdom," was he offering to split his governmental authority with her, to make her his coregent? No, he was not. He was offering to give her a part of what he and his government owned and ruled over. To him his kingdom was everything belonging to and controlled by him and his government.(Mark 6:23)
Clearly, the word "kingdom," as used today and in the Bible, primarily refers to a domain over which a king rules. With this in mind, what do the words "the kingdom of God," as used by Jesus and his apostles, refer to? What is the domain over which Jesus Christ now rules? Jesus Christ now rules over all those who have submitted themselves to His rulership by accepting Him as their Lord. The domain over which Jesus Christ now rules is His entire body of believers worldwide, also known as His Church.
This is the only definition that fully fits the way the term is used in the Bible. Consider, for instance, Revelation 5: 9,10. There we read, referring to Jesus Christ, "With your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. And you have made THEM to be a kingdom." Another passage I find quite helpful here is Matthew 13:47-50. There we find that Christ compared "the kingdom of God," which Matthew called "the kingdom of heaven," to a fishnet which would end up catching both "good fish" and "bad fish." This is, of course, exactly what happened when Christ's Church, which He established with the help of His apostles, was tossed into the sea of mankind.
Like any kingdom, the kingdom of God, Christ's Church, is made up primarily of the realm over which its king rules. In this case, Christians. And like any kingdom, the kingdom of God, Christ's Church, has its king dwelling within it. In this case, Jesus Christ.(Colossians 1:27)
Since the kingdom of God is Christ's Church, and since Christians themselves are the only visible and audible components of Christ's Church, the "good news of the kingdom" must be the good news that is preached by Christians. The word "of," here used as part of the phrase "the good news of the kingdom," does not mean "about" the kingdom. Rather, it is here used to refer to the good news belonging to the kingdom and coming from the kingdom. Just as, "the seat of Moses" belonged to Moses (Mt. 23:1 NWT), and "Jesus of Nazareth" came from Nazareth (Mt. 26:71). Today that good news is the same good news that the apostles preached nearly 2,000 years ago. And it is the same good news that has been preached by Christians ever since.
As I mentioned earlier, that "good news" is simply this. If we will only believe in our hearts that Jesus Christ's sacrificial death paid the full price for all of our sins, God will completely forgive us for all of our unrighteousness, and He will give us the gift of eternal life.
This is the good news of the kingdom of God. This is the good news preached by Christians. It is not, however, the good news preached by Jehovah's Witnesses. For, unlike the "good news" of Jehovah's Witnesses, the good news preached by the apostles and by all other Christians for nearly 2,000 years says nothing about an invisible government established in heaven in the year 1914 AD. It also says nothing about how this government will direct the efforts of millions of mortal believers as they work hard to bring paradise conditions to the earth and themselves to a state of human perfection. And it says nothing about how the only ones who will initially be allowed to live in this "paradise" will be people who totally submit themselves to the spiritual authority of a small group of men who run a publishing empire called the Watchtower, Bible and Tract Society.
Clearly, Jehovah's Witnesses preach a "good news" different from the good news preached by the apostles. And because they do we must reject their message. Why? Because in Galatians 1:8, 9 the apostle Paul wrote that anyone who preaches a "good news" different from the "good news" which the apostles themselves preached will be eternally condemned.
Pual said the good news had already been preached in all the inhabited earth. The "end" didn't come them.
The WTS has proclaimed that they've preached the "Good News of the Kingdom" (i.e where God slaughters 99.99% of the entire planet), and yet the "end" hasn't come.
In three thousand years after we are all mummies, our future descendants will be hearing the same song, and the "end" will still not have arrived.
Fogetaboutit. It's all nonsense and always was.
Farkel
"When in doubt, duck!"
fed up,
Unfortunately for the WTS 1914 can be thoroughly debunked as being a date of any prophetic significance (see The Gentile Times Revisited). Is it Good News to pronounce the end on a number of occasions and it not to come? Actually, it is for the 99.999% of humanity who thereby escape destruction.
Also, after the Good News has been preached, how long before the "then the end will come" kicks in? Face the facts (!) the Society can tell you anything; you'll be 69 yrs old and still hanging on to the "hope" unless you act now. In 2086 the Society will say, "the word "then" does not imply immediacy. After the signs have been fulfilled the scriptures mention a waiting period - a season of goodwill- during which those of good heart have time to reflect on all that has gone before. How loving of Jehovah not to condemn "men of goodwill" simply because they did not recognize the signs immediately. But, that time of goodwill will not be extended indefinitely. Now is not the time to be toying with Jesus' words and stretching out, in our own imperfect minds, this "season of goodwill." Some have used these words to pursue careers in this system, even moving to the Lunar Colony. But Jehovah is all seeing. Did he not say, though they reach up to the stars, from thence I shall pluck them down?"
It is dead simple to make bullshit up, fed up;
Forget this JW stuff - do as Tina suggests, go to University and actually learn how to do research for yourself. Once you do that you will have no further problems with elders. Or, you can go through life
asking "but what if the elders were right..." It's up to you. You have the link to Osarsif's site. All you need to establish is whether the Society tells lies. If it does, it isn't the truth. Simple as that.
Lionel Hartley
ps: the next thing the elders will ask you is "who else uses Jehovah's name." Figure out what a circular argument is....
pps: edited for reasons of melodramatic enhancement
We all know what Matthew 24:14 says. "This good news,......." What I find appalling is that the Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the ONLY ones to do that. How many times do we see people at work speaking about their beliefs? How many times do we see religions in the news for their help to others? How many times do we see/hear friends or neighbors talk about their beliefs? How about the ones that look you in the eye on the street and are genuinely nice? Aren't these all a part of spreading the word of God? No where in Matthew 24:14 do I see where it utlines EXACTLY in what manner we are to accomplish this endeaver.
Well, put, Lionel.
And for that next question: "but who else uses Jehovah's name?" just get out the _Comprehensive Concordance of the NWT_ and look up the name "Jehovah" in the NT. Even if we use the NWT as our accepted text does Jesus himself emphasize the name "Jehovah" in his everyday speech? From what I can see Jesus only utters the name "Jehovah" in the NWT 3 times apart from Old Testament quotations (and there is absolutely no NT Greek manuscript evidence for the name "Jehovah" in those quotations anyway). Instead, Jesus uses "Father" and "God" to refer to God. What is really telling is to compare the usage of "Jesus" in the _Comprehensive Concordance of the NWT_. The NWT "restores" (with no NT Greek manuscript support) the name "Jehovah" 237 times to the NT. How many times does the name "Jesus" appear in the NT of the NWT? Over 900 times!! Which name is emphasized in the NT of the NWT?
CatholicGuy
not my webpage but a favorite:
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZHOME.HTM
Try these statistics*.
Philippines 136,396
Germany 165,924
Japan 221,364
Nigeria 228,778
Italy 236,785
Mexico 533,665
Brazil 536,270
U.S.A 988,469
--------
Total 3,047,651
These are peak publishers from 2000. Just 8 countries make up over 50% of all JWs worldwide preaching. 75% of all JWs live in just 22 out of the 235 lands they live in. Going back to the 8 most JW populous countries the total population of those countries is under 1 billion people. Therefore, 50% of all Witnesses are preaching to just 17% of the world's puplulation.
Now take India and China. Combined these countries make up over 33% of the world's population. What percentage of JWs are preaching in those countries. Using all the publishers from "other lands" (25456) to use for China combined with the total in India (22217) means that 0.8% of all JWs in the world have a territory of one third of the world.
Is this global coverage? When many Americans have harldy heard of JW's let alone what they preach how well known are they on the Indian sub-continent, central Asia or the Middle East?
Thirdson
*Source: the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania
( http://www.watchtower.org/statistics/worldwide_report.htm
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
Thirdson,
But Jehovah is a reader of hearts. True, coverage is sparse in the countries you mention - but who knows the mind of God? Will not Jehovah himself examine the heart? And cleave the very marrow from the bone? Is the Creator, who even notices even a sparrow that falls to the ground, incapable of weighing the heart condition of those "sons of men" who, by reason of circumstance, fail to be reached by the good news in these last days of the last days? What blasphemy it would be to impute to our loving Creator such acts. Rest assured, in the "Day of our Lord" the righteous man will be spared, shadowed as in Egypt when the angel of death slaughtered only those who would interfere with the working out of Jehovah's purpose. How glad we can be that we can cleave to God's loyal organization amidst a world in turmoil and disarray.
Lionel Hartley
Lionel,
I know what you are saying. However, I was answering the Watchtower's claim not God's.
Is the Creator, who even notices even a sparrow that falls to the ground, incapable of weighing the heart condition of those "sons of men" who, by reason of circumstance, fail to be reached by the good news in these last days of the last days?
I guess after the big A the world will be full of JWs, Arabs, Indians and Chinese people.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
