Posts by mcsemike

32

Watchtower Evolution Fraud

by Amazing in

jw
friends

the watchtower society first published a book on evolution in the late 1960s or early 1970s, simply known as the evolution book.

it is a small hardbound book, the same in size at the old "truth" book.

other than reading it, i never really studied it.

To Anitar: It's funny that you told that story, it's similar to mine in many ways. My family was very musical, and all six kids got excellent grades in school. (I'm the oldest.) By high school, I played 30 instruments, started to write a symphony, taught myself the trombone in 5 minutes by transposing keys, and was student conductor of the orchestra. I went to college to study science, math, and education. I only finished 3 years before running out of money. I went into the working world, and 6 years later, at 27 years old, the JW's found me and I studied and got baptized, and married.

I then wanted to finish my degree because my wife worked so hard as a nurse. Her first husband had never worked and she did, so I didn't want her to do that again. She really had a kind heart and I loved her. The "brothers" told me that if I went back to college, they'd never use me. They said they needed my "skills" as a teacher and organizer. I was a book study conductor after only 2 years and there were elders who weren't, yet I was just a MS. I was given so many responsibilities that everyone said I'd be a CO in no time. But I stepped down to care for my wife, have a child, and try to find work.

I did pretty well until 2001, when my wife left me after I researched the Internet (I'm also a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer and taught computer networking) and discovered the WT's vile behavior concerning child abuse. My daughter was raped when 9 years old by a known pedophile and the elders and the pedophile's wife knew he was visiting our home to work on my house, yet they never warned us. So after 3 years of my anger and threats to "kill every elder at Bethel", they moved out. I've seen my daughter 3 times in 4 years and haven't heard her voice in over a year. I moved from NJ to FL to start a new life and get a divorce. My wife told me she'd come back "when I was an elder". F*** that.

The point? I WANTED to do the right thing and support my family. The elders sure valued my abilities and intelligence, and made full use of them, but when that same brain discovered all the lies, errors, coverups and other WT garbage, then I became garbage. I was only reproved, but no one will have anything to do with me.

I now am active on Silent Lambs and we are seeking media exposure to bring down the WT once and for all. Some of us are writing books. I obtained a BA in Psychology over a year ago with a 99 GPA. I broke my back to do that so that I could attack the WT based on the psychological damage they do, not on doctrine. There are hundreds of books arguing about the trinity, hell, etc. But a book, if I could get on TV or radio. that highlighted broken families, suicides, etc. would be dynamite.

You are right about having done nothing with your life. If I had gotten that degree at 27 years old when I married, l would have been earning six figures easily. Instead, as a JW, I had Mickey Mouse jobs (some a little better) for most of my JW life. What a waste. I'm in my mid-50's now and have to start over. I liked your example of the music student. I know he could have done more, I could have taught him. I also am self-taught on piano, studied to be a concert pianist, and gave lessons. The concert career was just taking off when I got baptized. Guess what they suggested?? You got it, stop playing and try to become an elder some day. I stupidly followed that advice.

I have not meant any of this to brag. I'm trying to demonstrate that people here, all of us, have gifts and talents that we probably were not "allowed" to make full use of. I read Amazing's story about how he got his family out. I think he's the engineer from Oregon, where 2 of my fleshly brothers live. The WT has stunted the emotional and economic growth of so many people that all they have left is McDonald's, moving in with grown children, or welfare.

I ask one final question. How does this glorify God's name??? If his "chosen people" are viewed as such losers by the world, how can the WT point to any paradise among the JW's? I find it very hypocritical that the WT will make use of college libraries or the few JW's at Bethel who DID go to college to try to defend their writings, but when the other 99% of the world that are NOT JW's and went to college disagree, they mock our "worldly wisdom". I'll put my knowledge of life AND the WT's history up against ANY living JW on the planet. You WT lurkers: "I challenge any of you to a debate on ANY topic you publish." Put your money where your big mouths are.

Thank you all for your patience. And thanks again, Anitar. I hope my story helps tie in with yours.

32

Watchtower Evolution Fraud

by Amazing in

jw
friends

the watchtower society first published a book on evolution in the late 1960s or early 1970s, simply known as the evolution book.

it is a small hardbound book, the same in size at the old "truth" book.

other than reading it, i never really studied it.

mcsemike

To Anitar: You made a good point. I don't understand how the WT can ignore thousands of people with Doctorate degrees when their educational resources are so shamefully lacking. I studied my fair share of physics, calculus, astronomy, math, philosophy, etc. in college and it staggers my mind that these WT writers think they know so much. It's one thing to know both sides and choose the wrong one. But to not even learn what the other side is, and how it was arrived at or proven, is the height of stupidity. I once got into an argument with an elder about "worldly wisdom". He asked me who I thought I was questioning the WT. I told him of my academic achievements and those in music and he said they were worth nothing. So now we have WT writers who would be working at McDonald's telling people here with Master's and Doctorate degrees how the world works. I don't think so.

Here's a good point I'd like to throw out for discussion. Does anyone think that the JW's are really secretly jealous of the fact that, deep-down, they kind of know we might be "right" and they blew it all for this pipe dream? That they gave up a good education and income for this cult and now they have nothing and they are in their 50's and 60's? I think there is a lot more of this than many realize.

Terry W. has made some very good points about the psychology of JW's and I have to agree with him, having a degree in the subject myself. I know when I was a JW, much of my thinking was along the lines that "now everyone who ever picked on me, all the wiseguys, the rich, the arrogant, are all going to pay for hurting ME". Not being against God or immoral, but much of it PERSONAL. That is NOT Christian. Yet I saw that attitude in almost every JW I ever knew, and I knew thousands. After I left the WT and got my degree, I then understood WHY I became a JW and knew the reason was wrong.

They all have "goat gloat", as in "he's a goat because he slammed the door". I even heard an elder say, "I hope I get his house in the new system. I like it". I told him maybe he wouldn't be there if that's how he thought. Needless to say, he didn't smile at me. I'd be interested in anyone's opinion. Many thanks to all.

32

Watchtower Evolution Fraud

by Amazing in

jw
friends

the watchtower society first published a book on evolution in the late 1960s or early 1970s, simply known as the evolution book.

it is a small hardbound book, the same in size at the old "truth" book.

other than reading it, i never really studied it.

mcsemike

Hondo, I like your comments. But if the JW's are right, many of us here won't live to see it. LOL. I prefer this: Let's wait until we invent better spaceships. Then we can leave the earth to the Islamic idiots and take off for another galaxy where the "sun" there has trillions of years left. You know, like in that Mars movie with Gary Sinise. We can kill two birds with one stone. Oh wait, make that three. If the WT is still around then, and the end hasn't come, we leave them all behind as well. Let them try to convert the Islamic world. THAT I would love to see. Peace, everyone.

32

Watchtower Evolution Fraud

by Amazing in

jw
friends

the watchtower society first published a book on evolution in the late 1960s or early 1970s, simply known as the evolution book.

it is a small hardbound book, the same in size at the old "truth" book.

other than reading it, i never really studied it.

mcsemike

Anitar: I loved your comment about the 7 thousand years for the age of the earth. (And the tee shirt one was even better.) How can people believe that? Just drive from the east coast to the west coast and you'll see rock formations and other things that obviously took millions of years to form.

60

How Do You Respond To: "Where Else Will We Go"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

when scared jws even think about leaving the organization, they often wonder where they'll go to instead.......any responses?

?

mcsemike

I liked the point that Minimus made about how many billions of people over the centuries wondered if they had the truth or not.

If anyone has any figures on the following question, I'd appreciate it. I once discussed this with a brother who was sympathetic to my situation. I asked him: what if we take all the people who were ever baptized, studied, or were exposed to the WT's teachings enough to say that they knew the religion to a reasonable degree. Then take away all the people who have been DF'd, quit on their own, drifted away, or even still attend but have already left in their heart. I don't mean JW's who have died, just the living. We could consider those who have died, but then the question would balance out with those dying still believing and those dying who were DF'd or had quit already.

My question to him was that it seemed that if we counted all the people who "knew" the truth well enough and subtracted those who were now out, no matter the reason, I thought that more than half of those who once ever knew the truth had rejected it as NOT the truth. In other words, if there are 20 million people alive today who are JW's, were JW's, or know the religion, and there are only six million active publishers, what does that say? To me, it tells me that most people who examined this "product" chose not to buy it, or if they once did, had it "taken away from them" by being DF'd, or just returned the product to the store (quit their study or DA'd themselves).

Does anyone have any idea what the percentages are in this situation. I think it would be an interesting point to make with the next JW's that any of us meet up with. I would ask, "How come most people who have test-driven your product, reject it?" I wonder how they would answer that. Oh, wait. "Jehovah is sifting his organization." That's hardly a fair answer. That's like me test-driving a car and after I buy it and it breaks down, the salesman says that this is how they discover which cars are bad and what things need more work. That is hardly fair to me, who now has to buy another brand of car.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts. I am curious as to how you view this.

61

HOW MANY ARE LEAVING?

by zev in

jw
friends

i see lots of names here that i don't know, and with the wt on a campain to keep its followers from looking at "unaproved sites" .

i've got to wonder.....what are the stats?

how many are leaving ?

mcsemike

So many factors are involved, it tends to make you dizzy. I think one thing someone mentioned about a drop around 2000 was the psychological "New century" thing. Years ago, they said the preaching work would be done and the end would come "within this century". They later changed that to "in our day". I think that phrase triggered as many to leave as 1975 failing did. Then the generation thing snapped: 1914 plus 80 years equals "whoops, we're past that date". Some halls shuffle people around, but you can't do that forever. One thing to look for is either congs. getting smaller or two small ones merging into one and then look for a K Hall being sold. There's a big clue right there.

Blondie, excellent effort with the spreadsheet. People with internet quit, those without stay. I'd look there too for clues. Ignorance is bliss and knowledge means people quit. We all know the WT has the money to use TV, radio (they used to have a station, why was it sold?) and other more modern things to reach people. Why still use door to door when it hardly works? I think less than 1 percent get baptized due to being found "in the field". Most of us had co-workers, friends, and family tell us about this religion. With gas prices and many JW's too heavy to keep stopping at Dunkin Donuts, they really need to find another method.

As someone said, they'll need to reinvent themselves, but what's left to change into? Whatever they choose, the loyal ones will gulp it down and act like it was "oh so clever, only Jehovah's people could have come up with THIS new light". I can't wait to see what it is. After my family left me because I criticized how they handled my daughter's rape, I used to call in occasionally. Then the brother in charge said you had to be preapproved as a "known sickly JW" to call in. So I quit altogether. I certainly wasn't going to shave, dress up and drive in the rain or snow when I could listen on speakerphone while doing computer work or watching TV. And we had 4 to 8 phone lines. They were always all taken well before the meeting started. (Like 20 minutes or more.)

One last point that someone said about no reason to stay. If the end isn't likely to be in our lifetimes (I'm 56 and first met a JW when I was 21 years old), then I can ignore them, die a natural death, and if this stuff is true, get resurrected 400 years from now. I mean, haven't they said that you get to live again even if you "knew" the truth? So why are any of them still going? If they really doubt Armageddon's coming in their lifetime, then "eat, drink and be merry". I don't know anymore, I get a headache thinking about the mental gymnastics I need to go through to figure out what's next. If only they used something simple like LOGIC. You could have an IQ of 200 and be in Mensa, it wouldn't help you to figure out how the GB thinks. I saw a tape of Jaracz when questioned about the UN or child abuse when he was at a convention. What an obnoxious snot! And I ordered the video from Silent Lambs where that elder in Australia got rude when the reporter asked a question a second time because the elder didn't answer it the first time. He said, "what are you, hard of hearing?" or something to that effect. I wanted to punch him in the nose. I see nothing in the behavior of the elders or the publicity people (JR Brown being one of the biggest horse's asses I've ever seen, he lies so well I know he is a psychopath) to indicate that God's spirit is with these people. THEY are the ones constantly belly-aching about "grieving Jehovah's Holy Spirit" as the reason things go wrong. How about the fact that they violate the Bible being the reason that holy spirit isn't with them?? If you think that's the reason, please raise your hands. Thank you all and good health to you.

PS. To any lurkers out there. I suggest you read this entire site very carefully. To those who are agnostic or quit the WT and don't care, you will at least save your time and money. To those of you who still believe in God and the verses about "how you judge, you will be judged", you just might save your lives. If you really are correct, and you DON'T have the truth, YOU will die, not the rest of the world. I'd be very careful about throwing mud at others when you wear such lilly white clothes yourselves. Remember, one speck of dirt gets you killed by the angels. Better get those brushes and a good stain remover handy. You'll need them.

87

How many 'real" friends did you ever really have in ther "truth'

by The Lone Ranger in

jw
friends

sure we got to know a lot of people, we knew a lot more people then the average person, but how many real friends did we ever have?

a friend that we could trust, that we could confine in.

i can say i had just one, bro x and even then i still had to be careful, bro x is an elder now and he tells me that im the only real friend hes ever had, he cant freely talk to anyone.

mcsemike

God, so many good points here and so many heart-rending stories. If this is so obviously the "truth" with "love among yourselves" and all the other verses, blah, blah, then how in Hell can there be such a debate about the most basic concept of them all: "LOVE". Conditional love? You bet. I never saw more robots in my life. Reminded me of the clone army in Stars Wars 2. What is it with Oregon and Washington? Isn't that the area that "Jay Walters" lived and wrote his story when he left the WT and got his family out? What does Oregon have to be self-righteous about? The weather sucks. Okay, they have some mountains and volcanoes. Big deal. They also have the highest rate of depression and suicide by geographical area. Not a good statistic, is it?

I wish I could say my wife was my best friend. She was supposed to be. But the Watchtower comes first in her life. I'm not asking to be more important than God, but I do ask to be more than the WT. But as we all know, the two are the same. So a group of old men on Geritol mean more to her than I do. And she obviously thinks that God will "make it up" to our daughter for not having a father in her life for five years now. She is almost 21 years old, still has no driver's license, and is barely starting her second year of college. How's that for emotional maturity? Who ended up being the better parent? What fruitage does the tree produce, my Mrs.???

To GRACE: Very good point. Conditional love. This is the very opposite of everything that Jesus taught, is it not? BBUTTTTT, the WT is always right, so Jesus has to "readjust his thinking" if he wants to remain as God's son. After all, can't the WTS, at one of their yearly meetings, vote Jesus out of office if he doesn't toe the line? As we all know so well, the Bible comes second, AFTER the WTS books. Didn't Russell say that his Studies in the Scriptures meant more and would be more clearly understood than the Bible? Yet God had the Bible written using 40 men. No.....He only used Russell to dream up garbage, Rutherford was used to "drink a toast to those prophecies" and Knorr was used to bore everyone to sleep so they could vote while most JW's were in a coma. Then Freddie boy came along and gave them a doctored Bible to defend the crap they had just approved in their sleep. (Don't feel badly, at least they got a nap.)

I also was surprised when every JW I knew fled after my daughter's rape became county-wide news. Did they honestly think that the world would consider the rapist to be an isolated case? No one would talk to me. Some put their hands over their ears and yelled (in the hall) that they didn't want to hear gossip. I said "I'm warning you so your child won't be next". They just sat there with their ears covered like little brats. They also knew I hadn't started therapy or meds yet. And yet they still showed NO mercy to me at all. What happened to the Good Samaritan? Didn't even ONE of Jesus' parables apply to me?? If I wasn't to be forgiven for accusing the elders of covering this up, then who is really a "lost sheep"? Oh, I know. Maybe it's a young punk who gets into trouble with girls or money. They caution him to slow down. But ME?? "You turned your back on Jehovah (I criticized the WT for its abuse policies), so we are to hate you." I said, "I'm Sicilian, do you want to see real hate?" No takers. I meant them no harm, but wanted to see how far they'd go. They would rather die defending the WT's sick doctrines than listen to my warnings and keep their kids away from the molesters I was telling them about. WE CAN'T HAVE GOSSIP, CAN WE?? WE DON'T WANT TO GRIEVE JEHOVAH'S SPIRIT, NO NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!" "You see, if we grieve god's spirit, then bad things happen. People don't clean the hall weekly, new people stop coming, parking spaces get scarce, snow gets tracked into the foyer, and people leave the seat up in the bathroom. Tsk, tsk.

Five months after my wife and daughter left me, it was one of those rainy, wind-swept, dark days in March in NJ. I was almost in tears and called the elder I knew best (he built many of my computers for me). I begged him to help arrange a meeting with the elders and my wife and child. His exact words? "You are concentrating on the MUNDANE things in your life. You need to think only about Jehovah." What an a**hole. I"m sorry, but does that sound like comforting words from god? If they were supposed to be, I'd rather be Satan's friend. My wife of 25 years was "mundane"?? My precious daughter? Mundane? Jerkoffs. I felt NO comfort from God or Jesus at ANY time. Do they care? I don't care anymore if THEY care.

Scotsman: Very good point about standing up for a pedophile. JW's will flood a courtroom to cheer on a known pedophile (we'll be here for you, we'll write, there will be a big party for you when you get out -kind of like the Mafia, we'll write every day, you can count on us, we'll mark that lying child who CLAIMS you raped her (we don't accept DNA as evidence since we don't know what it is and we can't spell it, etc.) So they tell judges that the JW man is a "good guy" and the 12 year old girl is a whore and a liar. I know, it happened to my child. I know some aren't fond of revenge her, but if my child dies from anorexia or commits suicide, I am going to drive back up North and we are NOT going to settle this in court. "DID YOU READ THAT CAREFULLY, WT SPIES AND STOOGES?? DON'T FORGET, I WARNED YOU."

To Sailor Ripley: You are right. There are no "friends" in the WT, which makes it more ironic that they call each other "the friends". They don't know what that word even means. "Conditional love" is an oxymoron. But then again, most JW's are morons, so it fits. There is just too much "goat gloat" in the WT. You know, where the JW's can't wait for everyone who disagreed with them to die. No regrets that they "chose" wrong, just elation that they "won't get away with disagreeing with ME anymore, how dare they??"

I'm sorry this was so long, but it saddened me that virtually everyone has the same story to tell. Since love was supposed to be the common thread running though the Bible, and JW's think they OWN the damn book, then why don't they have love?? Can any of you WT spies answer that one?? Come on, we're all waiting.

87

How many 'real" friends did you ever really have in ther "truth'

by The Lone Ranger in

jw
friends

sure we got to know a lot of people, we knew a lot more people then the average person, but how many real friends did we ever have?

a friend that we could trust, that we could confine in.

i can say i had just one, bro x and even then i still had to be careful, bro x is an elder now and he tells me that im the only real friend hes ever had, he cant freely talk to anyone.

mcsemike

I guess I'd have to say one. The brother who fixes my computers for me. He was DF'd and I still spoke to him all those years because I was already "out" of the WT in my heart due to their child abuse policy. He knew I shouldn't talk to him but he needed a friend and the WT doesn't tell me what to do. He's reinstated now and I'm on reproof and always tell him about this site and the things I learned on Silent Lambs. He's the only JW who ever listened month after month about this info.

However, I thought my wife was my friend. But after I told her what I learned, she left me. I think it was for "spiritual endangerment". I asked her to show me the verse in the Bible allowing that and she couldn't. I told her it was a WT teaching, but she wouldn't admit it. I told her that her behavior stumble me out and she pulled that "for those who love.....blah blah, crap". I asked about the verse if the husband is agreeable to dwelling....she said it didn't appy because I already "knew" the truth, having been a book study conductor for years. I asked her where the verse said that it mattered or not if the husband "knew" the truth. She said "we're not going to even go there". So I told her one place she WOULD go would be divorce court. I told her I married her because I loved her and thought that's why she married me. I didn't marry her because she was the last or only available "JW" left in that area or K. Hall. If she had left the WT, I wouldn't have left her. None of this made a dent in her thinking. She finished up by saying that "Jehovah would remove those bad elders I was complaining about in his due time, but she was going to serve Jehovah forever". I remarked that her comment was the most illogical thing I'd ever heard. She hung up the phone.

Whatever happened to "loyal friends"? I guess it's still "brother first, husband second". And also "WT first, Bible second", isn't it? It makes you wonder what kind of intimacy a couple shares when one can leave the other because he discovered the family had been lied to and betrayed, resulting in the rape of their daughter. What kind of mother defends an organization that allows thousands of children to be molested each year? What kind of wife leaves her husband of over 25 years because he can't stand to associate any longer with such perverts as the JW's? I think the fact that the local elders condone this and secretly gloat that "we fixed his wagon, he's not so tough now against the WT now that it cost him his wife and daughter emboldens them to continue to do so with one victim after another. But I'm going to wait and see how tough they think THEY are when their names, faces, addesses, etc. are posted on the Internet and the news media does stories on all of them when this breaks and some of us go public.

Remember, WT spies, there are more of us than there are of you who are willing to fight this war. And we have access to more money and media. You cannot win. I warn you again, you WILL pay for what you have done and are doing. If god doesn't take care of you, I WILL.

73

Kingdom News 37 sneek preview

by Midget-Sasquatch in

well i setup an account at reexaminer.org eager to make a contribution but find that uploading was disabled (for now anyway).. so here's this year's supposedly hard-hitting expose on "false religion" aka kingdumb news 37. i hope these links work for all of you.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5070/kn37p1wf7.jpg.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4599/kn37p2rn0.jpg.

mcsemike

Thanks, Anitar, it was nice of you to say that. I love your comments as well. My best to you.

73

Kingdom News 37 sneek preview

by Midget-Sasquatch in

well i setup an account at reexaminer.org eager to make a contribution but find that uploading was disabled (for now anyway).. so here's this year's supposedly hard-hitting expose on "false religion" aka kingdumb news 37. i hope these links work for all of you.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5070/kn37p1wf7.jpg.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4599/kn37p2rn0.jpg.

mcsemike

Damn these perverted hypocrites! I was about to say that I can't believe they can still print this BS, but silly me. They've done it for over a century. I forget the term in psychology, but there is the concept that if you attack others for doing what you do strongly enough, and act so nonchalant that you obviously assume and expect the world to ignore that you do the very same thing, you get away with it the same as bluffing in poker. I almost puked when I read this. By the way, thanks Elsewhere for the PDF. I couldn't read the other copy. (A few years shy of 60, the eyes start to go.)

First, sir82, good point. They HAVE NO shame. As Terry said on the main page, major psychiatric gymnastics take place in the minds of people who either print this crap or those rank and file idiots who swallow it whole. I KNOW for a fact that a good percentage of JW's have at least heard that the WTS is fighting off major accusations of child abuse. Even the stupidest JW would have to have kept his head where only a proctologist could find it if he/she hadn't heard something about this issue. For some weasel at Bethel to write that line about tolerating child abuse, when they do it more than the other churches put together do, is the depth of depravity. Does anyone see a similarity to how the Nazis started to just accept the death camps? And even the German people refused to believe it? The shame in all this is how serious child abuse is. If a JW didn't want to investigate how many times the WT changed its view on whether or not Sodom and Gomorrah would be resurrected or not, then I don't care, even though this alone proves they are ignorant fools. It's just not that important to argue about in 2006. But for ANY JW not to look into the abundance of child abuse accusations is inexusable. Do they honestly think that God will NOT kill THEM for tolerating it, doing it, DF'ing those who complain or go to the police, and other atrocities?? You are right, they have no shame and never will. Why? Because the WT told them NOT to. Period. What kind of person ignores the rape of thousands of children with the excuse "God will take care of it in his own due time". Even couples have split up over this, with one saying "Jehovah will remove the bad elders when he sees fit, but I'm going to remain and serve Jehovah". I wouldn't debase myself by living with a spouse who did that.

Jeeprube: Yes, I think that was the WT on the back of the beast. Don't they say the anointed are dressed in white robes? The picture in the post from Honesty is good. They could make the picture more accurate. The woman in the white robe COULD be Babylon, but then we need another person, a man, sitting behind her. In fact, SHE should be a child, not a woman. And the man should have the Watchtower logo on his shirt or forehead and his hands should be all over the girl in front of him, all the time yelling out, "don't look, this isn't me molesting her, you only THINK you see me up here. I'm really home studying God's word with my wife." THAT might be a more accurate picture, don't you think? It's also funny as hell that the UN building is so prominently displayed behind the woman in white drinking the wine. The Watchtower factory picture should be right next to it.

Another question: Doesn't fornication sometimes result in offspring/children? I wonder what type or anti-type the WT should come up with to dramatize this prostitution that they commit? Oh, wait. Can't be done. Freddie Franz is dead. (Thank god.) Maybe we'll be spared any lunatic symbolisms about this.

Skully, I liked your post as well. Oh, they have love among themselves alright. The men love the little boys, the elders love the little girls, the wives love to gossip that their husbands are servants, the WT loves the power, the money, the glory, and the ignorance of its members. And husbands are trained to love their children's bodies as they love their own wives bodies. Wives DO develop "deep respect" for the fact that their husbands are hypocritical and skillful molesters and are clever enough not to get caught. And they do teach their children to be obedient and not to tell anyone that their own family members are molesting them. And exemplary morals consist of the ability to commit felonies and rape and if one year goes by without the person getting caught, then he is a role model that even Jesus would be proud to follow. (Sounds like the qualifications for a hopeful parolee, doesn't it?)

And VM44, that's a good point about the UN caring about how much hatred the WT has shown them all these decades. It appears that they either don't know or don't care. I found this latest release to be a real puker. Every time I think the WT can't stoop any lower, they amaze me and double the previous level of idiocy, lunacy, and hypocrisy.

I live along a sleepy river area near the Space Center in Florida. The JW's came through last week with the invites to the Convention. I think the next time I see them, I'm going to accept whatever this offer is, let them leave, then go door to door with my copy and quickly show the householder the real story. We all know how hard they work just to get one person to accept a study or attend a meeting. How many would still go if an ex-JW visited their door 20 minutes later and told their story? Most people resent JW's coming there anyway. It shouldn't be too hard to get the sympathy of the householder as a fellow neighbor who is also tired of them bothering everyone. Hey, if this door to door is supposed to be so effective, why shouldn't it be in reverse? I'll try it next time and post the results. I'll probably return home with most of whatever publications were placed. (Maybe I should BUY them BACK??) THAT would be funny as hell.

My best to all and as usual, I have learned a great deal from all of you experienced posters. I'm still somewhat new to these forums and I enjoy all the intelligent expressions I read here. I especially like the fact that everyone here is NOT an angry lunatic trying to start his own, new religion like the WT would have us all believe. YOU BAD APOSTATES, YOU!!!! Maybe we should all sleep in asbestos pajamas, you never know when Freddie Franz will stand on top of the factory in NYC and say "NOW!!!!!" Good health to all.