Chariklo

Joined

• started 69 topics
• posted 2,613 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Chariklo

• 
  31

  Bearing Thorough Witness not so subliminal

  by Infowarrior in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  noticed this the other day while studying.

  i dont know how must witnesses miss this.

  it seems many of them are putting thier name over it on a label.... .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Chariklo

  Talesin...you wrote

  Chariklo -- a direct question I asked, and your ignorance of that is just as rude as anything else on this thread. The post was obtuse, and I asked for clarification. You have a problem with that, okay, then.

  What am I missing? Where did that come from?! I have and had no problem with you! I went back and read your post and then mine. Not sure what your direct question was, but can't see anything in what I wrote that was rude or offensive, and nothing that was directed at you.

  I'm flummoxed! But hey, that's the web for you.
• 
  132

  Hello

  by Chariklo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i am new to this site, just finding my way around.. i've been studying with jw's for about 15 months.

  i'm an unbaptised publisher, and until recently never missed a meeting, have been out "on the service" quite a lot.

  i've been having difficulties with one of the jw's studying with me and something happened which was just unacceptable.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Chariklo

  Hi, finding my way, thanks for that. I think disfellowshipping is disgusting, the ultimate cult trick, but only effective once a person is so brainwashed and so dependent on the cult that disfellowshipping is utter social isolation.

  You are absolutely right; they are not "real" friends. They only "love" you if you play by the rules of the cult group.

  When I first found this board I was raw and struggling to find my way out of or rather away from the JW's. It was barely two weeks ago. When I look back at what I wrote then and realise how confused I still was it's extraordinary to think that I've already, within myself, moved so far away from them. Partly, though, this is because the last elder who spoke to me recognised that I was feeling hounded (I was indeed being really hounded by the couple conducting my study) and said he'd give me a ring in about a week. So I'm in a lull, but i am now much more confident about being able to stand up for myself anf I'm much clearer about what I believe, what I don't believe, and most importantly my absolute right to think for myself.

  I realise I'm fortunate. Even though I got in about as deep as I could without being baptised it was all commparatively recent, and I had a very strong underlying Christian faith which had never gone away. My biggest problem was that I was just too basically politye and I'd given people permission to talk with me about the stuff they believed in, and then made the fatal mistake of trying to show them where they were wrong.

  Yes, you're right about the 144,000. The whole thing is a house of cards.
• 
  31

  Bearing Thorough Witness not so subliminal

  by Infowarrior in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  noticed this the other day while studying.

  i dont know how must witnesses miss this.

  it seems many of them are putting thier name over it on a label.... .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Chariklo

  Infowarrior...you have mail! I sent you a Private Message.

  Click on the envelope at the top right of the Forum screen, next to where it welcomes you by name. If you get an error message, (I always do, it seems) try reloading or clicking again on the envelope. It will eventually open!
• 
  132

  Hello

  by Chariklo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i am new to this site, just finding my way around.. i've been studying with jw's for about 15 months.

  i'm an unbaptised publisher, and until recently never missed a meeting, have been out "on the service" quite a lot.

  i've been having difficulties with one of the jw's studying with me and something happened which was just unacceptable.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Chariklo

  Godrulz, you wrote

  It is apparent that Muhammad died hating Jews, Christians, and denying the Bible God/Jesus.

  Have you actually read the Koran? You might want to rethink that statement.
• 
  82

  Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood.

  by designs in

  1. social
  2. current
  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Chariklo

  For those in Britain or with access to BBC TV...don't know whether or not you can get replays on the internet if you're outside the UK but worth a try...the BBC journalist Andrew Marr interviewed Obama on his programme "The Andrew Marr Show" on BBC1 this morning. It's well worth watching, as is the discussion that followed. (And how nice to feel uninhibited about getting involved in matters of the world.)

  What came across most strongly to me was that Israel would be much better off in the ong term if they did deal peaceably with the Palestinians, but the general feeling expressed was that Netanyahu was most unlikely to give any ground at all, and that there are so many pro-Israeli politicians in the US that Obama had a real uphill battle before him in trying to persuade Netanyahu to look at things from a broader perspective.

  My own view? I think that the way Israel was created was very hard indeed on the Palestinians who had their farms etc and had lived in their communities, with their extended families, for generations, always thinking they were in their own land of Palestine and then were basically told sorry, tough, we are giving your land to make the new country of Israel. Tough. Not good. And I say that with every sympathy for the Jewish people who had suffered so much and been displaced for so long.

  I don't know what the answer is but I'm quite sure that the one that was found was not ideal, and that no long term solution to the Middle East problem will be found until a more equable solution is reached, one that embraces the rights of and gives dignity to all the many peoples of the area. The wealth and militaristic stance of israel don't help.

  Just my view.
• 
  31

  Bearing Thorough Witness not so subliminal

  by Infowarrior in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  noticed this the other day while studying.

  i dont know how must witnesses miss this.

  it seems many of them are putting thier name over it on a label.... .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Chariklo

  I find the scorn displayed here a bit disappointing, though, sadly, not unexpected.

  Psychological manipulation is very evident throughout Watchtower literature. Many of those contributing to this board acknowledge it every day. Why is it easy to acknowledge when the manipulation is by word, but the idea of supplementing it through illustration and symbolic image worthy of ridicule?The advertising world have acknowledged the power and value of subliminal image in manipulatiing thought and deed among the unwary, and have demonstrated it for a long time, as, way back in the 1950's, Vance Packard made clear in his groundbreaking book "The Hidden Persuaders", recently republished and as relevant now as it was then. In addition, ancient mythology and serious academic occult literature are full of detailed information on sign and symbol, much of it available on the web.

  Whatever you think of it, it is powerful stuff at a deep psychological level. I, for one, am grateful to Infowarrior for bringing this to our attention...and yes, clarity, I agree, it wasn't much of an encouraqgement to a first poster...and I very much hope that this thread will attract more considered responses than it's done so far.

  Still, Mad Sweeney, I absolutely love the Worf gif. I've filched it!
• 
  31

  Bearing Thorough Witness not so subliminal

  by Infowarrior in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  noticed this the other day while studying.

  i dont know how must witnesses miss this.

  it seems many of them are putting thier name over it on a label.... .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Chariklo

  Infowarrior, I saw that face the moment I got the book last autumn. It's perfectly clear, very distinct on the actual cover.

  Also there below it, in less detail but with a strong outline, is another face, looking either a bit like ET or some kind of demon.

  Look at the standard carried by the Roman soldier. At the base of the decorated emblem-type bit at the top is a very, very clear and explicit devil/goat head. You can't miss it, there's no attempt to disguise it. It takes no imagination at all to see it.

  There are other demonic-type faces and symbols to be found in other areas of that cover picture, but mostly not as clear.

  When I first started researching JW's on the internet, when I first started talking to them, and when I was still very wary and felt something wasn't right, I Googled away and found sites that I'm sure you all know, where such images or subliminal effects are discussed. On those pages some apparently very clear and explicit pictures were published, but at that time I wasn't in a position to verify them.

  As I say, I noticed for myself these elements on the cover of the Bearing Though Witness book. But the strange thing is that within a short time that book, despite its very clearly manipulative and slanted text, began to draw me very strongly indeed towards the WT. Objectively, that shoul;dn't have happened. I'm quite well-educated enough to have seen through it. Part of my brain saw all the ploys of the text and yet other parts of my brain overrode all misgivings.

  OK, this may sound too far-fetched for words, but I had actually forgotten all about the images I saw on the cover last Septemember till I saw this thread, and now I'm wondering if there might in fact be soemthing in what those much-mocked sites were saying. The cover of the Bearing TW book is rich in this effect. Could it in fact have been influencing me even below the level of my own awareness, an awareness that up to the point when I was given this book was still very sceptical?

  Infowarrior, thanks. I'll be very interested to see what others think. And no, I haven't gone bananas.
• 
  29

  Hi everyone. Wanted to officially intro myself. Well at least give you: In the Beginning...

  by AK MCGRATH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, i'm going to break this up, because if anyone has read any of my posts, you know i can be long-winded.

  yep, i'm the person that can leave a minute or two message on a v.m.. i have been on this board for a month or two and wanted to make sure i'd be sticking around before i intro'd myself, so here i am.

  grab your favorite beverage, it's gonna be a long one.. in the beginning.... i learned of the "truth" through a co-worker.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Chariklo

  Hi AK MCGRATH, and I suppose I should say Welcome but actually you've been around longer than me.

  As I read it I was saying OMG! in places because a lot of it was so extraordinarily close to what I've experienced over the last 14 months or so. Even down to the crunch time coming around events leading up to my "first talk" which actually never happened, but that's another story.

  I began to wake up after a series of similar incidents, but all the manipulation, the putting-down, the tying-in-knots, the jealousy of one sister over another, all so very very similar to my own experience. I too got to be an unbaptised publisher but not baptised, and I am now firmly in retreat.

  Looking forward to reading more!
• 
  26

  It's 21st May 2011I am writing this 1 minute

  by cantleave in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am writing this 1 minute past midnight 21st may.. i'm still here..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Chariklo

  Well, of course it will be invisible, that's how Jesus came in 1914 and 1919.
• 
  82

  Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood.

  by designs in

  1. social
  2. current
  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Chariklo

  That says it all, Terra Incognita. Thanks.