Posts by ixthis

59

OVER ONE MILLION GREEKS ON THE STREETS PROTESTING TODAY...

by JustHuman14 in

more than one million people are out in the streets today in athens, greece, protesting against the new financial measures that the government is trying to pass.. the building of the greek parliament is blocked by protesters.

situation started to get bad, since the police had a clash with a group of "anarchist".

i guess we are all anarchists in greece, since we are looking for a better future for us and our children.. the corrupted governments that ruled this country from 1974, when dictatorship ended, have lead to poverty 11 million greeks.

ixthis

Αργ?τερα, επισκ?φθηκα το Γ?ροντα μαζ? μ' ?να φ?λο μου σμ?ναρχο, γ?ρω στα τ?λη Οκτωβρ?ου του 1993, και του εξ?φρασα την ανησυχ?α μου γι' αυτ? που συμβα?νουν στην πατρ?δα μας. ο Γ?ροντας απ?ντησε: «Μη φοβ?σαι. Ο Θε?ς δε θα επιτρ?ψει να γ?νει κακ?, αλλ? θα γ?νουν ?μως πρ?γματα και θ?ματα που δεν θα εξηγο?νται με τη λογικ?. Ο κ?σμος θα τους σιχαθε? (τους πολιτικο?ς) και θα τους κυνηγ?σει. ?πως ?να μπαλ?νι φουσκ?νει και ξαφνικ? σκ?ει, ?τσι θα σκ?σουν κι αυτο?! Δεν μπορ? να σου πω πιο πολλ?».

Πηγ?:

«Γ?ροντας Πα?σιος ο Αγιορε?της 1924-1994: Μαρτυρ?ες Προσκυνητ?ν», Θεσσαλον?κη 2003, Ζουρνατζ?γλου Νικ?λαος, επισμηναγ?ς (σελ. 165).

69

How big is a demon?

by Terry in

jw
friends

things which exist are real enough.

we can measure them.

they are just this big and no bigger or smaller.. they are here and not there.. imaginary things have the luxury of being any size.

ixthis

Shanagirl (post 2)

People who are reading this discussion should know that "apocrypha" is a dangerous word and it is not a term that is usually thrown around so blithely by scholars.

The term Apocrypha is used with various meanings, including "hidden", "esoteric", "spurious", "of questionable authenticity" etc. The word is originally Greek (?π?κρυφα) and this literally means "those having been hidden away". The word took on the more negative meaning in the 16th century when the Protestants questioned the (until then) accepted canon of Scripture.

I think it is a misleading term since Protestants, for example, will use it to define certain books that are indeed canonical and accepted as authentic ... Therefore, since these books have not really been "hidden away" but merely neglected by the Protestants, I think it a very inaccurate and misleading term.

We have the recognized and accepted body of Canonical Scripture (some of which is rejected by modern Protestantism). Outside of that we have the edifying and instructional works like the Didache, Shepherd of Hermas, Protoevangelion of James, various epistles and early writings deemed meeting the standard as defined by the Canon of Scripture.

Beyond that the other works are outright forgeries and heretical works deemed outside the standards of Canonical Scripture as judged by the collective wisdom of the Church.

The Apocryphal writings, officially rejected by the church (though they may contain elements of the truth not found elsewhere) are those being tainted by gnosticism and other heresies. As with anything we go to the Church Fathers. The following are certain fakes and should not be read,

Acts of Peter and Paul
Acts of Pilate/Gospel of Pilate

The following are of the gnostics,

Apocryphon of James
Book of Thomas the Contender
Dialogue of the Saviour
Gospel of Judas
Gospel of Mary
Gospel of Philip
Greek Gospel of the Egyptians
The Sophia of Jesus Christ
Gospel of Truth
Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter
Pistis Sophia
Second Treatise of the Great Seth
Apocryphon of John
Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians
Coptic Apocalypse of Paul
Trimorphic Protennoia

Here is St. Athanasios 39th canonical epistle:

".... Continuing, I must without hesitation mention the scriptures of the New Testament; they are the following: the four Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, after them the Acts of the Apostles and the seven so-called catholic epistles of the apostles -- namely, one of James, two of Peter, then three of John and after these one of Jude. In addition there are fourteen epistles of the apostle Paul written in the following order: the first to the Romans, then two to the Corinthians and then after these the one to the Galatians, following it the one to the Ephesians, thereafter the one to the Philippians and the one to the Colossians and two to the Thessalonians and the epistle to the Hebrews and then immediately two to Timothy, one to Titus and lastly the one to Philemon. Yet further the Revelation of John."

Test all things keep what is good.

69

How big is a demon?

by Terry in

jw
friends

things which exist are real enough.

we can measure them.

they are just this big and no bigger or smaller.. they are here and not there.. imaginary things have the luxury of being any size.

ixthis

Shanagirl,

I would say that the demon of heresy and confusion is the nastiest since he robs people from the true Way and Life.

... The Secret Book of John/Apocryphon of John is considered by scholars to be the locus classicus for the Gnostic mythological system not for Christianity. That is important to note and to continue to highlight. This book is estimated to have been authored within the date range of 120-180AD.

Interestingly, there is only evidence of four distinct editions in circulation from this period;

the first edition is represented by two identical Coptic manuscripts (MSS NHC II and NHC IV) that are slightly defective so the readings of each are restored through the other. This edition contains lengthy excerpts from a certain book called the "Book of Zoroaster" ...
the second edition, represented by the Coptic manuscript MS NHC III, differs in style and vocabulary from all other Coptic versions.
The third edition (Coptic MS p. Berol 8502) has the same issue as the second edition in that its style and vocabulary vary from all other versions.
The last edition is so brief and compressed that it barely classifies as authoritative and is quite distinguished from each of the other three versions.

As already pointed out, this book is an important work not for Christians but for mythological Gnosticism. Using its framework, the gnostics state it is a "revelation" by the "resurrected Christ" to John the son of Zebedee ... its mythological description is developed largely through terms from the early chapters of Genesis.

It is a problematic book because there already existed a revelation from the resurrected Christ to the son of Zebedee, John, in the the canonical book, Apocalypse of John, dated by scholars to be within the date range of 90-95AD. Clearly, 25-85 years before the secret book. Which one is the authentic revelation? There can not be two ...

Reports from the early church fathers indicate that they were familiar with this book and its contents but did not authorise its authenticity ... Example, the teachings of certain Gnostics described by Irenaeus are very similar to the cosmological teachings of the present Gnostics. It is clear that Irenaeus did not know the Apocryphon of John in its present form but that he did know of it in its original form ... so it is certain that the main teachings of the tractate did exist before 185 since the date of Irenaeus work, Against Heresies was around this time.

This lays the foundation of its historical context ...

37

Are You The Type Of Person That Really "Loves" People On This Site?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i know some here seem to truly be interested in everyone's welfare.

they seem to be really troubled/happy by another poster's health, life, children, job, sex life, worries, anxieties---you name it, they're very involved in "caring" about people that they hardly know.. i have forged some friendships, i've met some great people on this site.

i've communicated with many nice people here.

ixthis

There are some really really nice people in this forum and they shine through ... even the cheeky ones are cute and I genuinely like the ones that do not have the same opinions as mine :) There are a few jerks but they are exceptions ... when they leave remarks ... it is like ugh, why do you have to be mean?! Everyone else seems so sweet though.

69

How big is a demon?

by Terry in

jw
friends

things which exist are real enough.

we can measure them.

they are just this big and no bigger or smaller.. they are here and not there.. imaginary things have the luxury of being any size.

ixthis

Yes, and you are right ...

When a mans moral decision making is divided in his heart from the Fabric of Life then man has ceased to be a living Gospel, and has become an idea -- a set of beliefs, a system, a philosophy.

It is not his breath, as it ought to be; it is something to which he subscribes; and so it can be treated like anything else to which one subscribes, with more or less seriousness, with more or less attention - but ultimately as something external and that is "Religion".

So I agree with you but I would take it one step further in that this is a serious problem. Our society is raising people who feel they can "be" without the Gospel infusing their every decision - moral or otherwise - and so we are fostering religions that are not rightly shaping our hearts and perhaps only our minds; and maybe not even that.

What is needed is a renewed awareness of living the Gospel, that brings the faith in to the bones of every human being.

This is very much in line with what the Fathers tell us; if Christianity really is 'the life in Christ', then it is a life, the life - The Way and so it must be lived, and made the whole substance of one's being.

69

How big is a demon?

by Terry in

jw
friends

things which exist are real enough.

we can measure them.

they are just this big and no bigger or smaller.. they are here and not there.. imaginary things have the luxury of being any size.

ixthis

shanagirl, while I empathise with your desire to post a gnostic apologetic can you link that entire post you wrote and link it directly back to the topic of demons?

Perhaps you should start a different thread and we and others can discuss there, gnosticism? Perhaps we can understand the relationship between Orthodoxy and early (1st and 2nd century) gnosticism right here?

Gnosticism originates as a pagan Persian/Hellenist fusion along the borders of the two cultural groups. Since it posited a single Creator and a tension between "physical" and "spiritual" realms, it does not have a hard time worming its way into early Christian communities. It can be attractive! Since, it contrasts a sinful "flesh" world vs. a pure "spirit" world. It gives a very simple and beautiful narrative to everything. It allows us to not have to worry about messy questions regarding the Incarnation.

However, it cannot be reconciled with certain fundamentals of Christianity.
In Gnosticism, the material world is inherently bad.

Thus, whatever being created physical reality must also be inherently bad, or at the very least inherently ignorant. Thus, the God of the Old Testament is either not the Father or the Son is greater than the Father, since the Creator (demiurge) is a lesser being than is the Savior. In other words, if the Father "saw it was good" when He created the world, then the Father is less than the Son, since no being who understands that anything physical cannot be good would think that the world was good. However, if the Son and "the Father are one", then the Father cannot have been the being that created the world. Thus, Marcion felt it was necessary to exclude the Old Testament and give a very highly censored version of Scripture to his followers.

However, Marcion and his like always met opposition from the body of the Church.

There was no "gnostic origin" of Christianity.

Gnosticism was created later by heretics and those who follow gnosticism and its preachings promote heresy.

-----

PS. The thing that differentiates true Christian gnosis of The Way of Christ oand the "gnosis" of gnosticism is that in Orthodox Christian gnosis there is always an emphasis on the practice of the virtues and obedience to the commandments of God.

PSS. To clarify: Marcion is not a representative of 'Gnosticism' in a classical sense.

69

How big is a demon?

by Terry in

jw
friends

things which exist are real enough.

we can measure them.

they are just this big and no bigger or smaller.. they are here and not there.. imaginary things have the luxury of being any size.

ixthis

shanagirl - the gnostic gospels are written by Magicians who speak lies of Jesus Christ and mislead people into gnosticism!

Gnosticism - a big demon of the intellectual kind.

In the first three hundred years of the early church this was the key heresy that battled the truth of the Apostles and those people who look into the Gnostic Gospels are reading books founded on the false teachings and lies of the secret philosophical schemes of elite individuals who were the key antagonists of the Way.

69

How big is a demon?

by Terry in

jw
friends

things which exist are real enough.

we can measure them.

they are just this big and no bigger or smaller.. they are here and not there.. imaginary things have the luxury of being any size.

ixthis

Terry, yes indeed I am aware of the history of the Church and subsequently the Bible. I am not Protestant so I do not believe that the bible simply fell out of the sky and where I come from is that history along with divine direction work together to provide direction for the Church.

The bible developed as an outcome of issues that the early Church had to encounter. A dispute had arisen in Antioch over the adherence to Old Testament laws. The matter could not be settled and outside help was sought for ... the leaders of the [then] Antiochian Church and the community which had earlier dispatched the Apostle Paul and Barnabas brought the matter to jerusalem for consideration by the apostles and elders who where there. The matter was discussed, debated and a written decision made ... that decision was from James, the step-brother of the Lord and the first Bishop of jerusalem ... his solution to the problem was agreed to by all concerned at what was known at the time as the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:1-35) ...

It is amazing but we can actually refer back to the pages of the Books of Acts to see how this all developed. The "chrismation" of the visible Church at Pentecost. On that day the Holy Spirit descends on twelve apostles in an Upper Room - 12 men who were simple and illiterate and by the afternoon some 3,000 people believed in Christ and were baptized!! The Scriptures go further to record that when the first community began they were devoted to the Apostles and prayer (Acts 2:42). This faith then spread throughout Judea (Acts8:5-39), to Antioch and then the Gentlies (Acts 11:19-26). We find "converts" and new churches all throughout Asia Minor and the Roman Empire ...

We discover from the New Testament that the Church had her share of problems and not all was perfection ... Specific individuals (even within the church) sought to lead her of the path that the apostles had established and these issues had to be dealt with along with the errors that these people invented - even whole communities lapsed on occassion and were called to repentance.

Example: The Church in Laodicea (Rev 3:14-22)

So, yes I am aware of how the early church developed and how the bible developed ... we see that in the early church scores of such councils (as the Council of Jerusalem) met to settle matters of dispute and to deal with the issues that did not adhere to the Apostolic faith.

I do not see that as myth or story telling or fabricated stories ... if all was a lie it would have no foundations to spread so quickly around the world!

69

How big is a demon?

by Terry in

jw
friends

things which exist are real enough.

we can measure them.

they are just this big and no bigger or smaller.. they are here and not there.. imaginary things have the luxury of being any size.

ixthis

Or smoke them ... demons do not like smoke.

69

How big is a demon?

by Terry in

jw
friends

things which exist are real enough.

we can measure them.

they are just this big and no bigger or smaller.. they are here and not there.. imaginary things have the luxury of being any size.

ixthis

"You are worried and troubled about many things." -Luke 10:41-42

Here is what St. Irenaeus of Lyons of the second century says of the work of the devil, "He had indeed been already accustomed to lie against God, for the purpose of leading men astray." (Against Heresies, 5.23.1) "To lead men astray," he says!

Does your salvation concern you? Since this is what is truly important! (not the size of a demon but its intent).

Scripture very clearly teaches that demons are real (In the Gospels alone, the word "demon" is used thirty-two times, "devil" and "Satan" both appear fourteen times, and the phrase "the evil one" appears five times.).*

The Apostle Peter calls to each Christian: "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walketh about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour" (1 Peter 5:8).

----

* New Testament references to demons:

The freeing of people from the devil was the first work that our Lord Jesus Christ took on (Matt. 4:24, 8:16, 9:32-34; Mark 1:32-34; Luke 4:41, 8:2, 11:4) Specifically, we have the following accounts: the healing of the possessed youth (Matt. 17:14-21), the daughter of the Canaanite woman (Mark 7:24-29), and the two possessed Gadarenes (Matt. 8:28-34, Mark 5:1-19). In the last incident it is worth noting that not one but a whole legion of demons (i.e., a great number of them) became established in a man. Jesus prepared his disciples to drive out demons. He sent them in pairs into the cities and villages with the power to drive out the unclean spirits (Matt. 10:1, Mark 6:7, Luke 9:1). When they returned they reported. "Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy name" (Luke 10:17). The Lord foretold before His Ascension into Heaven that the breaking of diabolic power would be a clear sign of the Church: "And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out devils ..." (Mark 16:17). In the book of Acts we find many examples of the holy Apostles dealing with demons, including the healing of the possessed by the Apostle Peter (Acts 5:16), by the Apostle Philip when "unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, came out of many who were possessed with them" (Acts 8:7), and later by the Apostle Paul, who expelled a spirit of divination from a young woman (Acts 16:16-18). Moreover, the blessing of God acted so abundantly in those times that when, for example, personal things that belong to the Apostle Paul were laid on the possessed, the demons went out of them (Acts 19:12).