Posts by snare&racket

12

Watchtower Scandals

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

for the new members and guests viewing posts, can we summarise the basics of disclosed watchtower scandals that have happened and come to light.for the sake of the reader, can we have a brief summary and a secular source for the information, or a direct quote from the literature please.. .

owning a military company.. the watchtower accepted, owned and managed the largest shares in a military navy company.

funded by naval investment, the company was building diesel engines for navy pilotless drones and other vehicles.

snare&racket

Sorry phizzy, it reads differently to how I intended it to read, I know you didn't mean it like that or believe their excuse. X

12

Watchtower Scandals

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

for the new members and guests viewing posts, can we summarise the basics of disclosed watchtower scandals that have happened and come to light.for the sake of the reader, can we have a brief summary and a secular source for the information, or a direct quote from the literature please.. .

owning a military company.. the watchtower accepted, owned and managed the largest shares in a military navy company.

funded by naval investment, the company was building diesel engines for navy pilotless drones and other vehicles.

snare&racket

Phizzy, I clearly said this was for new visitors, people unaware. This is the stuff that got me out. Your reply reads like apologetics and gives a get out of free excuse for anyone looking for one.....a shame. Why not make up for it by offering some summaries of scandals.

Watchtower can claim to be blind and deaf all they want but they are not dumb and neither are we. I spoke to someone in a hedge fund about Rand Cam and they said Watchtower in taking on the shares have to accept them and appoint oversight, they did so for several years. Owning 50% of a military company does not happen without you knowing it, it is simplly ridiculous to promote that view and even more outrageous to believe it.

53

Jehovah's Witnesses Street recruiting thwarted by "Apostates"

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fylyfc_0we.

snare&racket

This is how the recent downward turn in scientology started, people on the street vocalising the truth about scientology as scientologists attempted to do as WT do...

Brave and courageous, well done to you guys. Braver than me!

12

Watchtower Scandals

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

for the new members and guests viewing posts, can we summarise the basics of disclosed watchtower scandals that have happened and come to light.for the sake of the reader, can we have a brief summary and a secular source for the information, or a direct quote from the literature please.. .

owning a military company.. the watchtower accepted, owned and managed the largest shares in a military navy company.

funded by naval investment, the company was building diesel engines for navy pilotless drones and other vehicles.

snare&racket

For the new members and guests viewing posts, can we summarise the basics of disclosed Watchtower scandals that have happened and come to light.For the sake of the reader, can we have a brief summary and a secular source for the information, or a direct quote from the literature please.

OWNING A MILITARY COMPANY.

The Watchtower accepted, owned and managed the largest shares in a military NAVY company. Funded by naval investment, the company was building diesel engines for navy pilotless drones and other vehicles. Here is the US governments security exchange comission document that confirms the shares they owned and the military involvment.

The US Government SEC files:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/922330/000106299302000371/form10k.txt

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/922330/000106299302000371/0001062993-02-000371-index.htm

WATCHTOWER ANTI SEMITISM AND SUPPORT FOR NAZI GERMANY

Rutherford sent a letter called 'The Decleration of Facts' where he made anti-semetic comments for which the Watchtower apologised for 50 years later. Rutherford as president for Watchtower also made clear the watchtower support for the Nazi Germany Hitler had established. The letter (A decleration of facts) is easily researched in secular historical sources and was also printed in the form of a pamphlet and it was written in the German yearbook Of that year.

Here is what the letter said:

" Instead of being against the principles advocated by the government of Germany, we stand squarely for such principles, and point out that Jehovah God through Christ Jesus will bring about the full realization of these principles and will give to the people peace and prosperity and the greatest desire of every honest heart ... A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications, and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness and who obey the Most High. Instead, therefore, of our literature and our work's being a menace to the principles of the present government we are the strongest supporters of such high ideals."

" The greatest and most oppressive empire on earth is the Anglo-American empire. By that is meant the British Empire, of which the United States of America forms a part. It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations. This fact particularly applies to the cities of London and New York, the stronghold of Big Business. This fact is so manifest in America that there is a proverb concerning the city of New York which says: 'The Jews own it, the Irish Catholics rule it, and the Americans pay the bills.' We have no fight with any of these persons mentioned, but, as the witnesses for Jehovah and in obedience to his commandment set forth in the Scriptures, we are compelled to call attention to the truth concerning the same in order that the people may be enlightened concerning God and his purpose."

Sources for information:

Watchtower apology - July 8th Awake, 1998

Garbe, Detlef (2008). Between Resistance and Martyrdom: Jehovah's Witnesses in the Third Reich

James, Penton (2004). Jehovah's Witnesses and the Third Reich: Sectarian Politics Under Persecution.

Gabriele Yonan, Persecution and Resistance of Jehovah's Witnesses During the Nazi-Regime

THE WATCHTOWER SUPPORTED THE UN

People in authority in Watchtower used to enjoy privelages at the UN, they used to take guests to the UN building for meals and it even became part of a NY tour for visiting JW higher-ups. How did they achieve this? Watchtower registered itself as a 'United Nations NGO'. This is a non-governmental organisation that supports and works with the UN. For the length of time that they were aligned with the UN, Watchtower annually signed an agreement to support and promote UN activities, all the while telling it's followers it was the wild beast in union with Satan's world that would one day seek to destroy Watchtower.

This conflicting relationship lasted until a reporter in the UK investigated the issue and wrote a lengthy informed article about the hypocritical stance in the UK newspaer 'The Guardian'.

sources:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/oct/15/religion.unitednations

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/oct/08/religion.world

224

Atheists, here is a 'balls' question ---even for all---

by prologos in

it is very difficult to knock a ball into a hole (like golf), throw it into a receiver's hands (american football) intercept it and knock it over the fence (american cricket).

or to put a sattelite at the right time at the right speed in the right direction in the right place to have it orbit another body, so :.

what ingenious natural & process is it, than can get 9+ zillions bodies to get into the right orbit simultaniously or sequentially and have them remain there for billions of years?

snare&racket

"I can not imagine a work of art like th universe just happening."

How you can imagine things is not how we humans judge what is likely to have happened, we follow the data, we can't deny the evidence we find. Imagine and indulge in all the comforting wishful thinking you want, it won't alter reality a jot. It is evident that you have actually not read any physics from what you are saying. Have you ANY idea of the evidence we have collated for the current models?

Just so I know we are not wasting time, can you please answer.....

What books have you read?

What are our current models?

What evidence of the current models are you largely aware of?

What are our models and evidence for the formation of the laws ?

If you have to google or paste the answers in, then there is no point discussing this yet. its like you offering theories for how gravity works having no idea of the evidence or models for the theory of gravity.

Many a billion human beings have died ignorant of the reality of modern physics and biology, you won't be alone. Many a Roman died praying for a god you don't believe in, to receive them into their paradise. I am sure they found it comforting too.

We evolved to survive Africa. Quantum mechanics is not intuitive to humans. We couldn't have imagined quantum physics, yet it is so. Even simple math evades our ape evolved brain. I have seen math geniuses flumoxed by the monty hall gameshow example. People's minds are boggled at the idea that you only need 21 people in a room to have sufficient probability that likely 2 people will share the same birthdate.

What seem logical, what we can imagine, what seems intuitive..... is irrelevant to what is true. This has been proven over and over again.

also you offer no evidence, not a jot, just simply that you ignore all the evidence in favour of what you orefer to imagine. Why come here and discuss anything if that is how you choose to believe anything?

I just don't get it. To me is seems you are either delusional, which I do not beleive, or too proud to simply accept the reality of what we know in 2014. Rather than humbly accept how wrong we were as JW's and theists, it is easier for some to deny reality itself, openly choosing something more comforting, something they CAN imagine to be true.

I can imagine this is all a false reality, that you are all part of an illusion I am experiencing. I can imagine it. I could not prove it to not be the case. I could find that egotysitical perspective empowering and comforting. But none of this makes it true.

Follow the evidence prologos, you evidently don't have access to it. Maybe syart with 'A brief history of time' and 'A theory of everything' then maybe Lawrence Krauss's 'A universe from nothing'.

You don't have to agree with the opinions made about the evidence, but it is the quickest way for you to find out the evidence without going back to school.

snare x

73

Hardcore JW Friend Predicts the End of the Organization within 10 years.

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

had a conversation with an aspiring elder.

he said the end must be close because people are so discouraged that the organization can't last more than 10 years.

this is before we received the please come to the international convention letter.

snare&racket

It is so close... We don't require any more donations......... nah, only joking, check out our new ATM's!

Send us electonic cash baby!

76

Meme competition 2014

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

simple.... .

watchtower + meme !.

anything is acceptable, but make your meme your own, hand written scrawls on microsoft paint are just as funny so don't worry about quality.

snare&racket

Processor, that last one had me in stitches and thinking of a perspective I have not thought of before, Jesus being dissapointed with the cheap suited, brain washed derp's stood before him.

Jesus: "Dad, I saw Wolf on Wall street and it got me thinking....why can't we rule over the cool people, with the cocaine and the hookers..... It'll be just like the old days! Solomon was a LAD wasn't he!

Dad: "Now, now Jesus, enough. You will look after the people wearing walmart ties and singing my melodies."

Jesus: "What about the intellectuals?"

Dad: " They are TOO smart nowadays. You saw that fuc*ing rocket they sent up here, nearly took my eye out!"

Jesus: "What about the atheists....."

Dad: "hmmm..... They know too much"

Jesus: " what about the soldiers, at least they can be all Revelation like and swing a sword! The JW's have LEAFLETS,"

Dad: "Now, now, they are my people and the Revelation's grand climax is indeed theirs.. and at hand...."

Jesus: " climax in their hand more like......"

Dad: " no that's forbidden too."

30

Were you a minor when you were baptized

by Watchtower-Free in

.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/xjwrg3/permalink/10152034643265835/?qa_ref=qd.

snare&racket

15 years old I signed my life away. I remember a CO giving a talk in the hall and he said to the parents "If they know right from wrong, then they can justly die at armageddon."

I was scared for my siblings and for myself. I figured if I could get through and make a defence for my non baptised siblings, it was a start. A sister in the hall, an old sister with a big family, son in bethel etc had told me that for sure Armageddon was going to happen that year, she winked as she told me it. She said if not that exact calendar year, then VERY soon after. That was the end of 1994 and I got baptised April 95. I was totally convinced she knew something I didn't.

She did not.

12

Update on my fade

by Jon Preston in

i apologize for the strangeness of my topics of late.

im in antight spot.

i havent been to a meeting for over a month...wife is sick again and wants me to attend but i am having the most difficilt time getting motivated to go...i mean every molecule in my body wants to stay home..but ive got an elder friend texting to ask if we are going and another asking for our service reports....grrr.

snare&racket

Spend a few days deciding what you want in life and how you are going to get it. If that involves being a JW then let it be so, if it involves leaving then you know how to go about it smartly.

I sense indesicion in your question. We have ALL been there matey, we all had reasons to keep going despite knowing the Oz behind the curtain was more wanker than wizard, some of us have left, some have stayed for family.

Make your desicion and then live by it. I did exactly that, it felt great.

snare x

224

Atheists, here is a 'balls' question ---even for all---

by prologos in

it is very difficult to knock a ball into a hole (like golf), throw it into a receiver's hands (american football) intercept it and knock it over the fence (american cricket).

or to put a sattelite at the right time at the right speed in the right direction in the right place to have it orbit another body, so :.

what ingenious natural & process is it, than can get 9+ zillions bodies to get into the right orbit simultaniously or sequentially and have them remain there for billions of years?

snare&racket

Prologos, I am sincerely glad to see you have started to discuss and consume real science knowledge. physics is a heavy place to start, but I did the same, physics is the language of the universe.

May I ask you, on what basis do you assume a god before the physics? Neither you nor I have the evidence or answers to take god out the equation or to put him in, that is the most honest position. But god is a hypothesis with no evidence, there is not even a reason to put god into the equation.

so prologos, why do you look at this new knowledge through the lens of 'plus a god who initiated it' ?

Why not start from scratch, use only what we KNOW to be true and see where you get to?

Maybe start from scratch with your source for the existence of a god too, the bible. Who wrote it, when, with what motivation, with what added in, with what taken out, when and why?

Maybe this will help you see why we haven't assumed his role in physics, whereas you assume it without question.......or evidence of it.

By the way, it takes about 5 years to do it properly, examine the bible I mean. I know I have done it, I know Cofty has done it, I know many here have.

Why not do it yourself, prove us wrong, or become a physicist and PROVE your god's involvment if you feel there is evidence for it. Infact you could write a paper now and change the world. Darwin was not even a biologist after all.......

All the best in your journey prologos, I have a feeling you will be in our camp one day, facepalming your old beliefs as we do now :D

snare xxx