Posts by snare&racket

219

An important difference between atheists and true believers

by Hortensia in

true believers, whether christian, muslim or whatever, want to convert you, they want you to believe what they do, and they're willing to go to extremes to make it happen.

atheists don't really care what you believe, and don't go out of their way to convert someone.. http://ow.ly/vn1jz an example of what believers in power do to suppress any difference in thought.

http://ow.ly/vraeo an example of why believers want to suppress different ideas (because they can't win in a fair fight, that's why).

snare&racket

We have SO MUCH in common here with each other. This is a big planet and JW's are a tiny minority, even smaller is the number of people that were churned out of that cult, in pain and suffering. We have all experienced suffering at the hands of a wierd cult most peoole know nothing at all about. Simply put, we only have each other to turn to, if looking for understanding for what we have gone through.

We are a unique bunch that very few understand, we have each other and I value that highly. I do love to come here and promote science and evidence, it is all the things I wish I had knowledge of, before I said "Yes" three times and got in that pool. I don't come to argue, debate or verbally masturbate, I come to vent a frustration at wasted time in a cult, I come & hope to help someone find information and evidence they are looking for. It is almost a letter to my younger self...

We are ex JW's, there is no need to then seperate into religious and atheist camps. There are FAR more religious topics here than atheist or scientific. But that is ok. There is some clashing of minds, from my perspective the same people arrive at threads on science and evolution, hijacking them with questions they don't want answers to. Atheists, yes we do shitty things too, I am so tempted to go to the thread on prayer and show the research that proves it makes people MORE unwell, it is a well known study... but 9/10 times, I don't do that , I leave them to discuss their beliefs.

But seriously, there is no need for us to be so confrontational. as for science and evidence, it is not OUR evidence or OUR science, we are not the people to debate or prove wrong. Take your opposing evidence collated via the scientific method, to the academic world. You will change the world if you are right. But until you do, respect that we are only here sharing knowledge not yet proved wrong and with evidence supporting it.

I for my part feel religious beliefs and scientific theories are not equal, but that does not mean I don't respect you or respect your right to a view. This is often misunderstood, because I dont respect the actual beliefs, says nothing for how I feel about the person.

I guess one ore big difference between atheists and religion, is that it just isn't personal with us. feel free to question me, challenge my beleifs all day. If the evidence changes tommorow, so will I. There is no personal attachment to what I believe, it is just based on evidence. I remember well, just how personal my religious beliefs were however and though I respect that it can be so personal to some, not believing I obviously don't respect the claims themselves. But I think it is often misintepreted as being personal disrespect. On a religious apostate forum, advocating science, it is a bit of a minefield for us...

Ahh man why can't we just hug again...

21

So I got called on today...

by Thumblina in

jw
friends

poor sod.

i felt quite sorry for him in the end.. for context, i was brought up as a jw since i was very young.

i left 6 years ago (faded) a little before turning 30. i was on here a lot around that time but under a different profile that's no longer active.. for the past 18 months, i'm back living in the territory of the congregation i grew up in.

snare&racket

Baltar, that made me giggle.....

What on earth was he typing into google for him to take a goosey at Scientology and JW's!

135

Shark Evolution

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://descrier.co.uk/science/fossil-discovery-shows-model-evolution-sharks/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=fossil-discovery-shows-model-evolution-sharks.

i used to consider sharks to be evidence for creation - and against evolution because it was stated that they are largely unchanged after millions of years ( hence, 'what evolution?')..

that's not the case, however.

snare&racket

woops... replied in wrong place.... see below your link :D x

rough summary...,you once again make assumptions about athiests, their beliefs, their views on sxience AND their motivations. All that just because they dont find reason to believe in Yaweh.

I don't know what you think we would convert people to? I would agree I have strong motives to help people deconvert if they choose to and that is the only reason I am here.

It is a cheap trick to once more try to paint non belief in your god as a belief in 'x' and then to cliam we want to evangelise and convert people to 'x'. But it is ridiculous, because 'x' in this case is evidence, specifically a lack of it for your claims. But I undertand why you do it and say it, it makes it look like a 50/50 choice, a matter of opinion, a religion based on god and worship of him, or a worship of dawkins and bowing down to science. But all this does is make you look a bit silly (really no offence) especially when 50% of scientists share your views... science is largely boring journals and papers. lol

219

An important difference between atheists and true believers

by Hortensia in

true believers, whether christian, muslim or whatever, want to convert you, they want you to believe what they do, and they're willing to go to extremes to make it happen.

atheists don't really care what you believe, and don't go out of their way to convert someone.. http://ow.ly/vn1jz an example of what believers in power do to suppress any difference in thought.

http://ow.ly/vraeo an example of why believers want to suppress different ideas (because they can't win in a fair fight, that's why).

snare&racket

"My description does, however, apply to what others recently on this board have called "fundamentalist atheists". I figured out what that meant, it's people who feel the need to save others by encouraging them to have faith in scientists."

Faith is assured expectation for things hoped for. Faith requires no evidence. Faith is dangerous and ill advised. I don't have faith in science! I test it and question it and only accept it on evidence. Why would anyone not do that? We are not evangelising science, that is like saying we evangelise gravity or atoms or even evolution. I do promote evidence and the best mechanism for retrievimg it..... the scientific method. But if people want to reject it,mI have no issue with that. I come here to talk to people who WANT to learn.

I must ask, how does faith apply to science? We don't hope that e=mc2 or that chemotherapy kills cancer cells or that evolution happens. Once more it is an attempt to make athism a religion by claiming we are out converting. Not only are you once more making claims about atheists, i.e. their views on science, having already admitted before saying the above that you shouldn't do that, but you are also wrong.

I would say without a doubt in my mind and in full honesty I 100% have an agenda to deconvert people, but not to follow me, or follow any belief system....but to deconvert & to take up critical appraisal and evidence and free thought...nothing more.

266

There Was No First Human

by cofty in

this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

snare&racket

There is no meeting in Brussells where all the scientists get together to discuss the problem of defining species, it is simply that there are sevral ways of seperating genetic prgression i.e. species.

The most common is the most obvious, its day one biology class....when an animal becomes so diverted from its parent species that it can no longer breed with it, it is a new species.

The issue?

In the most true evolutionary form, this is about genes being so different to the original species genes they can no longer procreate. In simple terms, the dna code is so different that they no longer can be read together. Like trying to mash a french book and a german book together.

But some biologists include mechanical restriction too, like a yorkshire terrier not being able to procreate with a greyhound, because it simply can't reach!

There is no actual debate however and no real use for a definition of a species. There is no gold standard or perfect example of a specific species, unless the environment stops changing, which it won't and on top of that all species would have to adopt the same enviroment, i.e. have the same influences to the genes.. then you could narrow it down, but this is hypothetical beyond possible. Environment includes predators, weather, grography, climate etc etc....so many variables on one planet, what is useful to a human here in the UK is not useful to a human in west Africa... black pigmentation and as said, sickle cell for malaria protection.

It isn't that science is in turmoil over the issue, Watchtower used to quotemine as if there was disagreements in science, in reality there is no right answer and the scientists differ depending on their objective. To think there can be a blueprint for a species is to not know or understand biology, specifically evolution. It is a constant variation in all directions, gene by gene, baby by baby... only the enviroment will dictate the most suitable, the fittest.

135

Shark Evolution

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://descrier.co.uk/science/fossil-discovery-shows-model-evolution-sharks/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=fossil-discovery-shows-model-evolution-sharks.

i used to consider sharks to be evidence for creation - and against evolution because it was stated that they are largely unchanged after millions of years ( hence, 'what evolution?')..

that's not the case, however.

snare&racket

fundementalism is a religious definition..... if you want to bastardise the word and say it applies to anyone vigourously defending a belief, how on earth does it apply to a population who DON'T believe? Evidence is all atheists have in common and all they go on, how can someome be vigorous FOR evidence?

It is a cheap attempt to make non belief a religion, a poor attempt to make it appear a 50/50 scenario, it makes believers feel better, atheism is just another opinion, just another belief system. I don't care if people want to spend their life thinking that.... but it's ignorant.

Tell you who are the worst fundementalists, non believers in Santa, they even tell their kids! Why not just let everyone believe in him, it makes people happy and it gives us a great tradition! ohhh those damn asantaists! Vigorous non believers who wont had it said santa exists. Well I say the greatest trick santa has every pulled is making us think he doesn't exist!

266

There Was No First Human

by cofty in

this excellent 4 minute video will help to clear up a few common misunderstandings regarding evolution.. ....

snare&racket

Here is a good way to explain it....

There was not a first englishman, there was not a first english speaker..... there was not one day, where the first french speaker suddenly was born & appeared. Language is comparable to genes and populations.

For the exact same reasons as evolution, it is all progressive, tiny changes over time.

189

Dawkins-The Greatest Show on Earth

by KateWild in

as many may be aware.

i don't like the man.

but i have chosen to review the first chapter of his book.. chapter 1... only a theory?.

snare&racket

Rejecting evolution based on a lifetime of WT dogma and being too scared to look at opposing views in science, i.e. the evidence.... is very different to being an ex JW rejecting science and evidence. There is nothing holding back the examination of evidence once you leave.

Don't get me wrong, in my opinion I would be harming my children if I raised them rejecting science and with replacing free thought with dogma. I truly believe that.

135

Shark Evolution

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://descrier.co.uk/science/fossil-discovery-shows-model-evolution-sharks/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=fossil-discovery-shows-model-evolution-sharks.

i used to consider sharks to be evidence for creation - and against evolution because it was stated that they are largely unchanged after millions of years ( hence, 'what evolution?')..

that's not the case, however.

snare&racket

A fundametalist atheist....REALLY doesn't believe in god... and takes the words of apostle Sagan literally.

Kinda contradicts the bible that says everyone is not atheist, but believes.... lol.

7

Predicting the future like Isaac

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

the prophet from the stars, mr isaac asimov made some predictions for 2014, (please note the lack of ambigous monsters of several heads and horns)....he was very, very specific all the way back in 1964..... communications will become sight-sound and you will see as well as hear the person you telephone.

the screen can be used not only to see the people you call but also for studying documents and photographs and reading passages from books.

synchronous satellites hovering in space will make it possible for you to direct-dial any spot on earth.. by 2014, only unmanned ships will have landed on mars, though a manned expedition will be in the work.. gadgetry will continue to relieve mankind of tedious jobs.

snare&racket

References? It isn't science..... it's his opinion and he wrote it all in a 1964 New York times article.

A science fiction writer is better at predictions than any religions and holy texts I have ever come across. He didn't claim to be inspired though. I assume from your request of 'references' you are impressed and want to see evidence of the predictions.

Tis a good topic title isn't it!

snare x