god's view of gays and lesbians.
why should anyone care what i have to say on this topic?
i am not a priest.
My goodness, it's just sex. It's just about people being happy and themselves. It's consensual. Nobody gets hurt. There is no defence for calling it anything but natural and healthy, now as for the bible......
The same God you are talking about condoned and commanded slavery, murder, infanticide, sexism, racism, war...... Who gives a fig what that character has to say about anybody's happiness and certainly not morals!
like the title says, i'm wondering if anyone here knows what instructions came with the new brochure about returning to jehovah.
did each person get a certain number at the convention?
are they to be handed out at will, up to each publisher's individual discretion?
Considering this religion has not hidden it's distain for the mentally diseased that dare to leave, it goes to show just how desperate they are for money, that they are releasing a brochure to get the ones that have ALREADY LEFT, back in.......
It's financially smart, but after 100 years of calling every leaver a goat, what's changed in their interpretations so that now these people have their own brochure? We know of course, it's how they have interpreted their balance sheets, not the bible.
It's a very corporate desicion. I wouldn't be surprised if the term 'market' was used when discussing the legions of leavers.
after mentally awakening to the idea that jws don't have the truth i strangely found myself delving into all encompassing conspiracy theories.
not that i believed them but something about them seemed quite fascinating.
i was especially drawn to the idea of a new world order/one world government.
I think the JW mindset in conducive to conspiracy theories, because you already believe that whole sections of society can have a secret agenda, like scientists, that there is a secret knowledge and privelage said status to be had to feel you are lucky to know it when most of the world doesn't. All of this is about eg.
i went through it all as a JW looking for answers, about everything and everywhere. There was a huge appeal to thinking you knew something others didn't. But in reality, the people purporting these theories are not experts and in the vast majority, do not have grasps of the sciences, history or general accurate data.
Beyond a doubt a huge issue is the lack of ability to critically assess data. That is a life saving skill in an Information Age.
On top of all this, it is also great fun! Since being a young boy I was fascinated with radio at night, I felt like I was getting access to adult data, I was into talk radio, listened to it for decades. I used to stream Alex Jones, Art Bell Coast to Coast, James Whale, all of them, loved it, it was garbage, but back then in was enthralling.
so i went out today with my broken leg and got accosted by an old lady, with some magazines.. it was my first ever encounter with a jw in ten years, and i had said 'i know you are jw's, i'm not interested thank you.
" twice.....then she started talking about my broken leg and how wonderful we are made and how amazing the healing process is.... and that's when it all started...."i used to be a bethelite pioneer, now i'm an atheist doctor...".
she was with me a good 30 mins, her elder husband left very annoyed but she stayed, and she was dying to hear everything i spurted out, despite aggressively defending every point, from military engines to paedophilia.
The sentence that keeps running through my mind, is him saying to me that truth is what's right for that person, and if you are happy your truth is right for you. This drove me bananas inside, but I was logically defending that what is true .......is simply true.... and can't ever be proven or shown to be false. I said that I will gladly admit that I may be happy as an exJW..... but wrong. He said it was impossible for them to be wrong because of how happy they were and that was enough for him that it was true!
I got out that I had very numerous Muslim friends that were happy and was about to say that gay's are often ecstatic......(thank you religioulous) and that happiness was subjective and had nothing at all to do with truth.... But this was the point that led him to raise his white flag and go sit in his car. It was a hot day and I didn't envy him. He certainly didn't appear happy to me!
p.s. We went back to the promenade , today I got up the step to the pub..... See, perseverance can see you overcome even the devils work.
so i went out today with my broken leg and got accosted by an old lady, with some magazines.. it was my first ever encounter with a jw in ten years, and i had said 'i know you are jw's, i'm not interested thank you.
" twice.....then she started talking about my broken leg and how wonderful we are made and how amazing the healing process is.... and that's when it all started...."i used to be a bethelite pioneer, now i'm an atheist doctor...".
she was with me a good 30 mins, her elder husband left very annoyed but she stayed, and she was dying to hear everything i spurted out, despite aggressively defending every point, from military engines to paedophilia.
Lol, thanks. Nah it was no fun at all.
i think the best moment, was when she said the world was in a terrible state and clearly coming to an end, she said they knew the end was near and soon.
i said, firstly they have said that for over a 100 years now and have no reason to say it, then she jumped back in with how bad the world is, for which I happily discussed how good life is in 2015 and I used my favourite response to the whole.... The world is going to hell b.s....... I simply asked her to name one year in history that was better than 2015?
She looked at me .....then thought she had outsmarted me and said....not just in the UK, though but everywhere, and I said exactly, every country in the world, which is in fact a much harder position for her to now defend. She just stared at me and I said.....exactly. That literally ended her point there.
so i went out today with my broken leg and got accosted by an old lady, with some magazines.. it was my first ever encounter with a jw in ten years, and i had said 'i know you are jw's, i'm not interested thank you.
" twice.....then she started talking about my broken leg and how wonderful we are made and how amazing the healing process is.... and that's when it all started...."i used to be a bethelite pioneer, now i'm an atheist doctor...".
she was with me a good 30 mins, her elder husband left very annoyed but she stayed, and she was dying to hear everything i spurted out, despite aggressively defending every point, from military engines to paedophilia.
So I went out today with my broken leg and got accosted by an old lady, with some magazines.
It was my first ever encounter with a JW in ten years, and I had said 'I know you are JW's, I'm not interested thank you." Twice.....then she started talking about my broken leg and how wonderful we are made and how amazing the healing process is.... And that's when it all started...."I used to be a bethelite pioneer, now I'm an atheist doctor..."
I said I felt ashamed that I was ever a JW and said all people think of with JW's is blood transfusions and paedophilia, and that was s heavy blow to her, she looked at me melancholic and said in an embarrassed and somewhat upset tone..."really?" I had non JW's with me that reaffirmed what I said.
They tied themselves in knots talking about other religions they were in decades ago that could never answer their bible questions, expected them to just "have faith" .,..... But then admitted they didn't NEED to question of check anything the JWs told them, so I asked what real progress they had made since the religion they used to be in?
She said she wasn't judgmental and that the JW's weren't, then 5 mins later denounced all scientists as biased and atheist, I then said that most scientists are religious and that she shouldn't judge what amounts to millions of people without meeting them.
I ended by saying, I don't know how you walk up and down this promenade whilst admitting to me here that you don't need to research anything you have been told by your religious leaders, I said it was improper and unconscionable.
I said, I am sure much that I have told you has scared you and you will dwell on it, I am more sure that you will be too afraid to check anything I have told you ......and that..... should say more than anything I have said.
I eventually wished her well, shook her hand and she wandered back to her elder husband that hated that I did not respect his 40 years as a JW, and that 'no' his 40 years did not hold any water or authority with me. He actually said he didn't need to read books to reaffirm anything, I said we were very different people. He wasn't used to being treated as an equal and didn't like defending his silly answers. He must have said '40' years five times, like that means anything,
The cowardly elder threw up the white flag, she was desperate to hear everything I said, whilst pretending she didn't want to and knowingly making empty gestures at defences. For example, when I explained that the military company was owned by what watchtower call a mistake etc, she loved that, then I said.... Well I expected better than that from them and she said, yes, I do too really. When I explained 1914 coming from the length of a pyramid corridor, she laughed at me, so I told her it was her failing to not know that after 40 years .....and I could tell she believed me, so then she said maybe God had it made by the Jews that way and had Russell measure it ...and all I had to say was ....come on..... I went on to talk about there being no evidence of Israelites even being in Egypt, not one historian, not one history book, and same with 607 be, I even went into how she could worship a God that commanded rape, slavery, murder, war and said I am sure you think these same things and don't dare face the questions and she hesitantly nodded along.
i felt sorry for them, though it sounds like it was confrontational, it wasn't I was very respectful, very direct and gave fact, fact, fact, fact and references, three times she asked me if I was DF'd because she was so disturbed by everything I was saying.
I can't lie and it sounds like I'm showing off, but it was a proper JW ass whooping and I was proud that it was me giving it, not for any other reason than how different I am now to who I was. Again, I was being friendly, nice and wanted her to hear it all so repeatedly talked of respecting her and understanding her difficult position.
i talked about candice, about the recent UK case, about how rife paedophilia was in the JW's, she said it couldn't be helped and I simply said 'by their fruits you will know them'.I talked about the domestic abuse and alcoholism rife also, I talked about the governing body being unapproachable and anecdotally unpleasant, I talked about crisis of conscience and franz, the elder said 'he was disfellowshipped' my friend said 'what does that mean?' So I said 'kicked out' my friend laughed and said ...well of course he was! We talked about money, the stock market etc etc.
I know for sure it will all have gone straight through one ear and out the other,but for sure I could see it hitting heart strings and knocking stuff over as it traveled through.
It felt empowering but also a little mean, but also like I had done a good deed. Very odd.
Then we went to the pub..... I couldn't get up the step with my broken leg, you win this time Satan, damn you.
watchtower june 2015....... .
the bible and proven scientific facts.
the bible does not claim to be a textbook of scientific knowledge.
"That general statement ....lol.... ALLOWS...lol ......scientists to determine the age of the physical world.."
Seriously, they just said that!
Lol indeed.
watchtower june 2015....... .
the bible and proven scientific facts.
the bible does not claim to be a textbook of scientific knowledge.
The Bible does not claim to be a textbook of scientific knowledge. Its writers, however, did make accurate comments on matters that should interest scientists today. Here are some examples.
Age of the earth and the universe
Scientists estimate that the earth is about 4 billion years old and that the universe was born some 13 to 14 billion years ago. The Bible sets no date for the creation of the universe. In no place does it affirm that the earth is only a few thousand years old. The very first verse in the Bible reads: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1) That general statement allows scientists to determine the age of the physical world according to sound scientific principles.
for many christians, the bible is viewed as the 100% error-free, perfect book straight from god, where every single word was carefully chosen by god for a reason.
but, usually, when you have a discussion on the topic, these christians will end up saying that only the original copies written directly from the hands of the prophets and apostles were error-free, and all manuscript copies since then are subject to copyist mistakes and other errors.. since zero original copies are in existence, how do we know the originals were error-free?
why should we think the originals should be error-free to begin with?
for many christians, the bible is viewed as the 100% error-free, perfect book straight from god, where every single word was carefully chosen by god for a reason.
but, usually, when you have a discussion on the topic, these christians will end up saying that only the original copies written directly from the hands of the prophets and apostles were error-free, and all manuscript copies since then are subject to copyist mistakes and other errors.. since zero original copies are in existence, how do we know the originals were error-free?
why should we think the originals should be error-free to begin with?
The very racist separation of Jews and Gentiles, would not even exist without the bible and it's God. The bible is riddled with commandments and rules for slavery, never once condemning it, quite the opposite. As for the sexism in the bible, a good example being that a female slave was worth less and had to stay a slave longer..... Makes your chosen verse a mockery.
no offence, but I assume, this is why you didn't quote it, but instead gave a very biased interpretation.
the verse is saying, despite the difference between Jew and gentile, slave and free man, female and male, all are serving/ adhering to Jesus.
Had it been moral, the verse would have not separated people by race, sex and ownership. It would have said all these things are in fact immoral!
I am am amazed that you chose this verse, really.
