God loves Gay, Lesbian, and Transgendered People

FusionTheism

God's View of Gays and Lesbians

Why should anyone care what I have to say on this topic? I am not a priest. I am not a pastor, nor am I a deacon, televangelist, a mega-church preacher, or a rabbi. Heck, I didn't even go to college. My sexual orientation is also heterosexual, not homosexual. I am just a humble servant of God, and I am absolutely not inspired or infallible. So, your first thoughts may be, 'Why on earth should I listen to this guy speaking on the topic of homosexuality and the Bible?'

To be blunt, you shouldn't listen to me, except when I make appeal to common sense, logic, reason, science, and Scripture which you agree with in your heart and in your mind. After all, you don't need to be a rocket scientist or have a college degree in order to know what is right and wrong, and to have good morals and ethics. In fact, you don't even need to be religious to be a good, moral person.

I just want to appeal to your inner morals, ethics, and sense of justice. If you consider what I have to say, and you don't agree, you're free to reject it. That's the beauty of God's gift of free will, and the Founding Fathers' providential Bill of Rights for all Americans.

What I am going to say may offend or stumble many of my fellow Christians, but that is not my intention or goal. My aim here is solely to promote the use of common sense, reasoning, and logic, along with glorifying the teachings and commands of our Lord Jesus Christ found in the Holy Word of God.

Gay and Lesbian Equality in the Bible

First off, the Scriptures are clear that God doesn't view homosexuals any differently than any other human beings on earth--

"there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:22-23, ESV)

"what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality"(Galatians 2:6, ESV)

"Show no partiality as you hold the faith ... But if you show partiality, you are committing sin" (James 2:1, 9, ESV)

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16, ESV)

Note: None of those verses say "Except for gays and lesbians."

How did Jesus view Gays and Lesbians?

We have zero written records of anything Jesus said specifically regarding gays or lesbians, unless you count what He said about eunuchs (which was positive, at Matthew 19:12). But, we have many records of Jesus teaching how much God loves all people, with no clauses excluding homosexuals. Here is just one example:

Luke 6:31-42 (ESV):

"And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them. If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount.

"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.

"Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; [...] Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?..."

Jesus sternly commands us Christians to never judge or condemn others, and to never hypocritically speak about someone else's sin without addressing our own sins first. Then He gave the toughest commandment in the entire Bible: "Love your enemies, and do good to them." Usually gays and lesbians should not even be viewed as our "enemies," but here, Jesus says that you must love even those people who are your enemies and who hate you. Well, it's not rocket science to see that we must also love gays and lesbians, who are not even our enemies.

Even if you (or your church) strongly view homosexuals as "evil," notice Luke 6:35-36 where Jesus commands us to love those who are evil, just God loves them too.

Now let's look at another story from the life of Jesus:

John 8:3-11 (ESV):

The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?" ... Jesus ... stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." ... But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus stood up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more."

This is one of the most powerful moral lessons in the entire Bible. What we learn here is that, even if homosexuality is a sin, and even if you think you've "caught them in the act," Jesus declares that the only people who have a right to condemn them are people who have never committed a sin. There has only been One Person who never sinned, and that was Jesus.

Then, very powerfully, Christ says that He, the sinless One, chooses not to condemn sinners either, even though He has the right to!

As Paul so bluntly put it: "Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls," and "What have I to do with judging outsiders? ... God judges those outside." (Romans 14:4; 1 Corinthians 5:12-13)

James, the brother of Jesus, also added "There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?" (James 4:12)

So, if you're focusing on bashing gays or speaking against homosexuality, isn't it time to do some soul-searching after reading the Scriptures above?

The Argument Based on Liberty and Law

Almost all Christians strongly support the Constitutional liberties guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, including freedom to worship any gods any way you desire. This actually allows the freedom to commit idolatry and blasphemy against the Christian God. But Christians support this because they recognize it also guarantees their own rights to worship as they please. It also respects the God-given free will each of us is born with.

But, if Christians strongly support the legal right to commit idolatry and blasphemy, why do so many Christians vehemently oppose the legal right to have freedom to marry someone of the same sex? It is the height of hypocrisy, and also is very illogical, to support the freedom of idolatry while opposing the freedom of gay marriage.

The Argument Based on Harming Your Neighbor

The New Testament appears to teach that the only things which are actually sins in God's eyes are things which harm your neighbor. For example, Paul, James, and John all say that the only commandments are to love God, love others, and do no harm to your neighbor. (See Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8; 1 John 3:23)

Paul even goes so far as to declare that nothing is sinful in itself, but it becomes sinful if you hurt others by your actions:

Romans 14:20-22 (ESV): "...Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble..."

Romans 14:13-14 (ESV): "...I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean."

Titus 1:15 (ESV): "To the pure, all things are pure, ..."

1 Timothy 4:3-5 (ESV): "...For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer."

A couple very important, thought-provoking questions to ask yourself, are: How is gay marriage or homosexuality harming other people? If gay marriage or homosexuality is doing no harm to anyone else, then why do you focus on attacking it so often and so strongly?

Why do so many Christians condemn gays and lesbians?

Sodom and Gomorrah

A large number of Christians believe the Bible teaches that God destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah for homosexuality. This is actually taught nowhere in the Bible. The actual sins of Sodom listed in the Scriptures are:

Attempted rape of angels (Genesis 19:5)
Pride (Ezekiel 16:49)
Excess of food without sharing (Ezekiel 16:49)
Living in prosperous ease without helping the poor (Ezekiel 16:49)
Haughtiness before God (Ezekiel 16:50)
Buying, selling, planting, and building while paying no attention to God (Luke 17:28-29)
Being ungodly (2 Peter 2:6)
Sexual immorality and lusting after strange flesh [angels?] (Jude 1:7)

So, as you can see, the sin of Sodom was not primarily (or perhaps, even at all) homosexuality. Jude 1:7 is the only verse which could be interpreted as referring to homosexuality, but more likely, it refers to the gang attempting to rape the angels in Genesis 19:5.

An entire false tradition has arisen among many Christians that God destroyed Sodom because of their homosexuality, when, as you can see, is not taught in the Bible. There may have been many homosexuals living in Sodom, but that is not the reason God destroyed the city.

(The sin of Sodom actually appears to have been much closer to the current behavior of the rich and powerful Republicans and Tea Party in the United States.)

Romans 1:21-28 (ESV):

"...they did not honor him as God ... and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts ... because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, ... God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done."

A close look at the first chapter of Romans will reveal that the Apostle Paul is condemning the different practices and rituals connected to the pagan worship of idols, including the burning lust involved in temple sex and orgies. Paul isn't speaking of monogamous, loving, committed relationships between two gay men or two lesbian women. Since Paul is focusing on the sins of idolatry and lust here, I don't see how it is proper to try to use this chapter to condemn all homosexuality.

Christians don't say that all heterosexual sex is sinful just because Jesus condemned lustfully looking at women, so why should we say that all homosexual sex is sinful when Paul condemns "burning with passion/lust" in Romans 1. I believe that would be "going beyond what is written." (1 Corinthians 4:6)

In addition, even though Paul seemingly wrote that lesbianism was "contrary to nature," Paul said the same thing in 1 Corinthians 11:14-16 regarding women having short hair. So it's possible Paul used this term regarding things which were looked down upon by the local community. The Apostles often wrote about forsaking certain things because people in the immediate area condemned those things. (Acts 15:19-21; 1 Corinthians 9:22)

Leviticus 20:13 (ESV):

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

First off, as Christians, we can safely set aside the statements on homosexuality in the book of Leviticus or other Old Testament Laws of Moses, because (1)these were only given to the Jewish people, (2) they were only temporary, and (3) they have expired. (See Hebrews chapter 8) In addition, if we are going to follow Leviticus, then Paul and James, the brother of Jesus, both say that we must follow the entire Law of Moses. (Galatians 5:3; James 2:10)

Look at some of the commands in Leviticus before and after the homosexuality command:

Leviticus 19:19 (ESV): "You shall keep my statutes. ... You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material."

Leviticus 19:27 (ESV): "You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard."

Leviticus 20:18 (ESV): "If a man lies with a woman during her menstrual period and uncovers her nakedness, he has made naked her fountain, and she has uncovered the fountain of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from among their people."

So if Christians must condemn homosexuality based on Leviticus, Christian men must also have beards and you must never sleep next to your wife during her period. In addition, Christians would never be able to wear modern clothing made of different materials.

A lot of Christians make a big deal about the fact that Leviticus refers to homosexual intercourse as an "abomination." However, the Law of Moses also says eating pork, rabbit, or lobster is an "abomination" too.(Deuteronomy chapter 14) If you're going to follow the homosexuality commands of the Mosaic Law, then you should follow the rules against eating pork and lobster. Otherwise, you are being a hypocrite.

The book of Leviticus, in the very same chapter as the command against gay sex, explains why all these commands were given:

"And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them. ... I am the LORD your God, who has separated you from the peoples. You shall therefore separate the clean beast from the unclean, and the unclean bird from the clean. You shall not make yourselves detestable by beast or by bird or by anything with which the ground crawls, which I have set apart for you to hold unclean. You shall be holy to me, for I the LORD am holy and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be mine." (Leviticus 20:23-26, ESV)

These commandments were primarily given by Yahweh to show a distinction, a separation in the eyes of the world, of God's chosen nation, to make them different and unique compared to all other nations on earth at that time. God was also banning things which the pagan nations associated with worshiping idols, such as orgies, temple sex, and prostitution. The Law of Moses was never intended to be permanent requirements for all people at all times, as Paul writes so eloquently in Galatians:

"So then, the law was our [the Jews'] guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:24-28, ESV)

But what about 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10?

Context is king. We must examine the surrounding passage instead of basing our doctrines on isolated verses.

1 Corinthians 6:8-12 (ESV):

"But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers! Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 'All things are lawful for me,' but not all things are helpful. 'All things are lawful for me,' but I will not be dominated by anything."

First off, there is some dispute among scholars and experts on the meaning of the Greek word [arsenokoitai] rendered in the ESV as "men who practice homosexuality." The King James Version rendered it as "abusers of themselves with mankind." The word literally translated is "man-beds."

Some interpret this word to refer to male prostitutes involved in pagan temple worship, or to pimps, pedophiles, or rapists. The context is very clear that it refers to something that is harming your fellow Christians, and is listed together with thieves, greedy, and swindlers. Obviously there is more involved here than merely a private monogamous loving relationship between two gay men.

For further research on this Greek word, I refer you to ReligiousTolerance.org, Our Spirit, and this article.

For the sake of argument, lets say this Greek word does refer to all homosexuality. Immediately after Paul listed these sins, he then declares, in 1 Corinthians 6:12, that "all things are lawful" for Christians, but not all things are beneficial. He is declaring that none of these things are sin, UNLESS they are not beneficial or are harmful. So that is the key thing to consider: Does this action harm my neighbor or myself? Is this action beneficial to my neighbor or to myself?

1 Timothy 1:10 (ESV):

"the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,"

Again, the context shows that this is referring to some action which is harmful to others, in the same category as slave-traders, liars, and perjurers. It would make more sense for this to be male prostitution in temple worship or pedophilia, not monogamous homosexual relationships. Please see what I wrote above regarding the Greek word which is rendered "homosexuality" in many modern Bibles.

In conclusion, even if all homosexual sex were a sin in God's eyes, homosexuals can freely receive the same forgiveness and mercy from Jesus that all of us other sinners receive:

"I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." (1 John 2:1-2, ESV)

Jonathan Drake

I didn't read the OP, because I found the thread title offensive and assume that everything stated in the OP must be an example of accidentally committing intellectual dishonesty with ones self.

copy and paste from one of my other posts:

Any Christian that is for gay marriage or who even tacitly approved of it is not following or agreeing with what the bible says. They can engage in all the mental acrobatics that they like to avoid having to face what their Book of Truth actually says - but it doesn't change it. So long as being a Christian is defined in part by being an adherent of the bible they will be expected to uphold the following views:

Leviticus 18:22:
"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
Romans 1:27:
"27and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error."
Romans 1:26:
"For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged naturalintercourse for unnatural"
1 Timothy 1:8-10:
"Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. This means understanding that the law is laid down not for the innocent but for the lawless and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father or mother, for murderers, fornicators, sodomites, slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching"

I'll just stop here. That last one is particularly condemning of this apologetic view of the bible, for not only is it in the New Testament, but it's upholding the Old Testament view of homosexuality as an abomination that is unholy, profane, godless, etc.

Further, these are not allegory verses. They are clearly addressing a specific type of people toward whom the bible (as just demonstrated) holds a 100% consistent view of being unnatural and damned.

There is no explanation for any other view than this being found in the bible except either willful intellectual dishonesty or ignorance.

Jonathan Drake

First off, the Scriptures are clear that God doesn't view homosexuals any differently than any other human beings on earth--

Ok I tried to read it but got to this and I just can't. I respect the time taken to try to put this argument together, but it's absolutely wrong and knowing better, it kind of offends me.

oppostate

Thanks for your article on this, long but you eloquently, clearly put your views forward.

One point I'll make about your comment on John 8:3-11.

This is one of the most powerful moral lessons in the entire Bible.

I tend to agree, yet this has been cut off from the revised NWT.

_Morpheus

"To be blunt, you shouldn't listen to me, "

the first time you said anything i agree with

Simon

The logic of christianity makes no sense.

God is perfect
God's creation is perfect
God loves everyone
God gives everyone free will
God will kill everyone who doesn't do what he tells them to
God thinks gay people are an abomination
God will 'fix' gay people but only if they stop being gay (aren't they already fixed then?)
God made everything perfect but the fact that some people are broken and need fixing isn't his fault

The only way most religiots don't go mental with all the contradictory beliefs is that they are usually only capable of having single, simple thoughts at a time so they never notice the issues.

Witness My Fury

FT comes here to preach and spout its opinion on things it knows little about and then moans when people dont agree with or dare challenge its erroneous thinking....

This OP pissed me right off and i only scanned it briefly.

Jonathan Drake nailed it anyway....

LoveUniHateExams

Gay and Lesbian Equality in the Bible - so, why no gay marriage in the Bible?

Jonathan Drake

The only way most religiots don't go mental with all the contradictory beliefs is that they are usually only capable of having single, simple thoughts at a time so they never notice the issues.

This is it exactly, and I'm trying so hard not to go off on a tangent on this thread because I feel it would be hypocritical so soon after making the same kind of assertions myself.

God cannot both love the LGBT community and tell them that if they don't change their very nature he will kill them all. You cannot both love someone and assert they are a profanity of nature, an error, etc. This is a completely absurd and contradictory notion.

On this subject, as with many others, saying God loves the gay community is like saying that a man who beats his family and threatens to kill them constantly loves his family. It's absolutely, unequivocally, demonstrably, a lie.

You got my blood boiling with this one FT.

FusionTheism

I welcome any and all counter-arguments and opposing opinions.

Free speech is awesome.

I am a little confused as to how I can "offend" atheists by saying I support gay rights and gay marriage???

God loves Gay, Lesbian, and Transgendered People

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