snare&racket

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Posts by snare&racket

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  44

  Verifiable proof of Jesus' existance outside the Bible

  by unsure in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  thought i'd start a separate discussion on the subject.. those who know me know i'm struggling with faith; i want to believe, some days i do but it becomes difficult.. many believers say there is verifiable proof of jesus' existence outside of the bible.. please post this proof..

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  snare&racket

  Jonestown massacre....

  Belief and the willingness to die for it means sweet FA.

  You will find truth in evidence and evidence alone. Sometimes the current truth is only to say we can't yet know.
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  46

  10 years on.....

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was a window cleaner, i was at the time unemployed, homeless.

  i had no education to be proud of (high school one a two b's rest c's) i was a jehovahs witness.

  i had been a pioneer.

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  snare&racket

  Toes up,

  I had a presiding overseer as a patient once. I was shocked at the change in dynamics. This was someone I feared, respected, held high, as a youth. Here he was, a spiritually confused, conflicted man. I could see his bemusement at me, I had left and yet I was successful at life, to the point where here he was seeking my care and knowledge. At one time he had all the answers. In his greatest time of need he had few too many. At one point he gave a plea to the life of the JW's and momentum of the organisation, but even as the words were coming out of his mouth, the new social dynamics just diluted what he had intended to proclaim proudly..... to a weak sales hype and empty rhetoric. It was palpable to us both. Maybe once upon a time, hearing that a religion had a brand new website and app for an iPad may have convinced me it was special. Now, it just seemed sad and a little pathetic. The sadness came from HIS evident realisation mid sentence that this really wasn't the amazing golden, shining flash of evidence that indicated gods favour on the JW's that perhaps he thought it was prior to voicing it to someone now outside that biased world. He wasn't an unintelligent man and it was an interesting encounter. I have no doubt it didn't alter his views one bit. Hence I left and he did not.

  It was very sad and eye opening. I was incredibly respectful and never once replied, or discussed any element of the JW's. It was my turn to politely smile and shepherd him to health and I did so professionally.
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  46

  10 years on.....

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was a window cleaner, i was at the time unemployed, homeless.

  i had no education to be proud of (high school one a two b's rest c's) i was a jehovahs witness.

  i had been a pioneer.

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  snare&racket

  I was a window cleaner, I was at the time unemployed, homeless. I had no education to be proud of (High school one A two B's rest C's) I was a Jehovahs Witness. I had been a pioneer. I had done much with the RBC for a good 6 years. I had been a bethelite.

  So it was about this time 10 years ago that I asked to speak to my presiding overseer. 2 hours of theological concerns , crazy old doctrines, historical revisionism, sincere questions on following men who had been so wrong so often and never once right.....and the final nail in the coffin in our conversation....evidence that WT had been the majority owners of a military company called Rand Cam, a near silent rotary Diesel engine, developed with naval sponsoring.
  

  The conversation began with "maybe Jehovah is going to use you and what you have discovered to 'clean house'" within an hour it had reached "you can't attend meetings and have these questions." The next day my closest friend at the time was told he couldn't be married in a KH if I was the best man (2wks later) ..... within a week friends were reporting back to me that they had been advised to stay away from me. Next it was that I was bitter with god/ looking for excuses/ gay and therefore would soon leave.

  Most knew I had signed up to night classes and college. The last meeting I went to (I attended until I left for college) an elder mocked me for wanting to become a doctor. He had a huge sarcastic smile and asked if I really felt there would be a need for a doctors if I believed in God and paradise. I kept my thoughts to myself, smiled with sincere sadness in my heart for him and walked away. This was my last JW encounter at my KH. ( By the way my thoughts were that he was hedging his bets thinking that there would be a need for double glazing salesmen in 'paradise'... I also hoped that the irony of the universe never left him or his family needing my profession.)

  It took about 5 years of studying the bible, world history, religious history, science, evolution, physics ....all in my own time before I felt comfortable with my world view. We don't know! As for morality, what's best for the group is best for the individual and by being good and at best contributing good back to society we are being moral. (I know, I know..what is good?...another day people!). If we work hard and are very fortunate me may contribute to developing humanity in some way can't think of a better life spent. A life of servitude and obeisance to a jealous, wrathful, genocidal, attention seeking deity..... was no longer for me. Neither was a life of ignoring myself, my heart, my mind in ignorant obedience of several uneducated, backward men in Brooklyn I would never even get to meet.

  I honestly spent sleepless nights wondering where I would be now, 10 years on...

  I feel secure in my worldview,

  I have never lived so honestly, living true to myself and my feelings.

  I live free of needless, unhealthy guilt.

  I live free to ask, to seek answer and most beautifully....

  I live a life where it's ok to say "We don't know."

  I have a healthy group of real friends.

  I have a wonderful relationship with an amazing girl 😍

  I feel fulfilled.

  I feel I'm no longer wasting my life.

  I'm a qualified doctor, currently A&E/ER doctor and about to be an ICU doctor.

  Im respected and appreciated.

  I have actually saved people's lives.

  i have made some people's lives better.

  I'm happy ☺️

  Ten years on..... I have no regrets! None! Zero! I do not think for even a shred of a moment that I left any 'truth' behind in the witnesses. It is a dangerous mind altering belief system that dilutes your cognitive ability to reason. It denied so much knowledge and resource and pours into that gap worthless, bias, uneducated opinion. It is VALUELESS.

  I made many wonderful friends who were deeply religious. In the outside world it is so evident that beautiful, friendly, loving, happy, charitable people exist everywhere! The JW's not only do not have the monopoly on being good, moral, happy people...... you soon realise why they hate the phrase "nicer/happier/friendlier than a lot of brothers and sisters" ....because it doesn't take long to see how unhappy, judgmental, conditional relationships with JW's are. They are a lovely people, but they are stressed, tired, guilty, uneducated, struggling and constantly feeling unworthy all the while trying to ignore that desire to read/research/delve into their inner beings real doubts and questions.

  Please don't be offended by my reference to uneducated. A small minority of JW's are educated. But we all know higher education was heavily frowned upon. A 2009 PEW study of religious groups had JW's as the poorest and least educated! Nobody wants to be considered uneducated .... it doesn't however mean unintelligent! There is huge potential in most JW's for sooooooo much. They just fear what they will lose and so choose pioneer over Princeton!

  How sad that JW's and even Ex JW's often get offended at this issue, most would never deny that education was in reality frowned upon and that most declined it and yet .....who would honestly deny that education in any form when worked hard with is anything less than awe inspiring, amazing and life changing, I find it so sad that many I grew up with and still love were and are denied such stunning truths about life, the universe and importantly, developing the tool kit to decipher truth. Worse than this they get angry at the perceived insult of being 'uneducated'......It's not an insult, it was a human right denied to us!

  I lost a lot, but you soon realise the value of what is only available to you with condition that you give up your heart, mind, freedom and life,

  So please, if you are now waking up....if you have children.... if you have loved ones... GET OUT.

  Most of my family ten years on are out.

  For the sake of any children wasting years and years to a cult.... just go. For your sake....just go!

  There is NOTHING to be gained by staying, you are just prolonging contact with a toxic belief system and spending minutes, hours, days, months, years..... you will NEVER see again.

  Leave.........who knows where you will be in 10 years time?

  
  

  (P.s. I left that meeting with my PO so relieved and smiling. I remember this yet I remember being shocked that I was happy and not scared.....however there was now no more confusion. No more internal conflict! The elders did not fall to their knees in shock or surprise at my questions and evidence, they didn't beg me to stay whilst we all researched and prayed.... they asked me to leave! .... how could it be the truth?... 25 years of wondering came to a crescendo and ....I found myself smiling... because now I knew... it couldn't be true! I saw behind the curtain and I was asked to leave.)
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  11

  Isis and failed prophecy

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi everybody, hope you are all well!

  i read this today and thought of the jw's and you guys.. it's an article from today's paper about isis and a recent victory over the town of dabiq.

  isis have long claimed that this will be the city where good will face evil i.e islam v christianity/western powers.

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  snare&racket

  Hi everybody, hope you are all well!

  I read this today and thought of the JW's and you guys.

  It's an article from today's paper about Isis and a recent victory over the town of Dabiq. Isis have long claimed that this will be the city where good will face evil I.e Islam v Christianity/western powers. It's one of the first cities they took and even named their monthly magazine Dabiq. This was the capital of the caliphate from where the war of good and evil would be fought. The war came....and they lost. Also it was not the west fighting them but the same Sunni muslims they claim to be a part of. Now the city was recaptured they have .....cough....'new light'... and have adjusted their prophecy. It seems so ridiculous and transparent and human and BS when you read that this happens and yet I'm instantly reminded that I accepted the adjustment of 'prophecy' and 'interpretation' for most of my adult life. Face palm indeed!

  "But Dabiq was recaptured by Sunni militants. The expulsion of Isis from the town was an opportunity to deal its propaganda a double blow, not just because of the failed prophecy but that it was defeated by the very population that Isis claims to represent, on whose behalf it is fighting the world. Isis quickly revised the Dabiq prophecy, saying it still applied but its time had not yet come. Isis moved the goalposts, figuratively as well as literally – fleeing fighters reportedly removed the town name’s signs and took them away."

  I bet the governing body would applaud that tactical genius of 'new light'.... when the religious war of all wars doesn't happen how and where you said it would..... steal the city signposts and run away with them.
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  52

  last convention before global attack on witnesses

  by Phoebe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so it's not enough that i'm dealing with post traumatic stress/anxiety and panic attacks all related to my life as a jw (50 years baptized -- i stopped going a couple of months ago) at 3 a.m. i get an email from the other side of the world.

  'you have to go to the convention.

  bro sanderson says we must watch the news, things are happening.

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  snare&racket

  They have been saying this for over one hundred years.....

  They are yet to predict ANYTHING correctly.

  This time next year don't forget to forward the email back to them with maybe a photograph of the fun and normal things you got up to instead of a cult convention.
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  80

  The Fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ever since i came out of the witnesses, i've become very political.. i've heard lots of arguments back and forth for many things.. in the u.s. there is the argument that it is "racist" to want to deny entry to muslims.

  while there is freedom of religion, there is also the very valid concern of maintaining democracy and a justice system that is based on modern values.we as exjw's constantly quote the pew center for statistics on jw's such as: they are last place in the us for members of a religion that go to university, and second-last for poverty levels of members of a religion.

  we accept those statistics and mention them as proof of how damaging the jw's are.now, let's use the same center for some very scary statistics on islam:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/22/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/.

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  snare&racket

  Racist....no, but prejudice....yes.

  The motivation for leaving England for the new country was....freedom of worship. It is the very foundation of American society.

  i am an atheist, but I have no say in anyone else's beliefs and that is how it should be.i know how dangerous the JW belief system is....but I wouldn't ban its people from travelling or living anywhere. We are all adults. Our opinions differ. To assume one's opinion and view of the world is correct and the most appropriate is small minded and ignorant, therefore we allow freedom of belief.

  I know many Muslims and ...cliche....one of my closest friends is a Muslim. He is one of the most caring, moral, hospitable humans I have ever met and if you think the JW's are good at lI've bombing, try visiting a mosque!

  Christianity has a plague of disturbing trends, from anti-semitism and sexism to the darkness that is torture, war and even mass child abuse.

  There is no hierarchy of what is right or moral or correct with beliefs and faith. Unlike facts and evidence, they are personal and varied. To punish a people for not thinking as you do is ...... immature .....and prejudice.

  
  

  If every Muslim in the world landed in the US and then immediately went on a rampage, it would be a difficult point to argue. If half of them did, if ten percent did, if one percent did........ but they don't. They just don't.

  
  
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  12

  Guilt as Motivator

  by LifesNotOver in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've just come across this idea: i've been feeling guilty about not contributing more to this forum, given all the help i've received here.

  i feel guilty that i haven't had it as bad as so many of you.

  i feel guilty that i didn't have any jw family/friends that shunned me when i left.

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  snare&racket

  It's a huge element to being a JW.

  I remember consciously remember the relief of letting go of the perpetual, inescapable guilt that is unhealthy.

  Those hormones responses and and sensitivities remain even when we leave, as a JW that guilt was purposefully cultivates as it was a strong motivator for WT's wants.

  With time it dissipates but even now I will have moments where I have to fight the feeling of inexplicable guilt and it is, in my opinion, a remenant of the JW past.

  btw; it gets so much better/easier as time passes and the letting go of perpetual guilt is one of the significant & rewarding benefits of leaving the JW cult.
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  19

  Cyprus JW's Military Service

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i work with a nurse who served for 2 years in the army of cyprus as is compulsory in that country.

  i happened to ask about jw's and their consequential punishment for not doing it.

  he laughed and stated that since 2009 they have to do it and that he personally knew several that 'served.

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  snare&racket

  I spoke to my colleague and he said the law changed in 2009 and that's when they started participating in the conscripted service.

  i just googled Cyprus 2009 Jehovah military ..... and indeed there seems to be evidence he was being truthful.

  Obviously it's just anecdotal, but I do believe my colleague as he had no motive to lie.

  https://www.wri-irg.org/programmes/world_survey/country_report/en/Cyprus

  "25 Sep 2009 — warresisters

  Issues

  • Cyprus still maintains conscription. The recognition of the right to conscientious objection does not meet international standards.
  • The right to conscientious objection is not recognised for professional soldiers, nor for serving conscripts."
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  19

  Cyprus JW's Military Service

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i work with a nurse who served for 2 years in the army of cyprus as is compulsory in that country.

  i happened to ask about jw's and their consequential punishment for not doing it.

  he laughed and stated that since 2009 they have to do it and that he personally knew several that 'served.

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  snare&racket

  I work with a nurse who served for 2 years in the army of Cyprus as is compulsory in that country. I happened to ask about JW's and their consequential punishment for not doing it. He laughed and stated that since 2009 they HAVE to do it and that he personally knew several that 'served.' This included full weapons training and live fire exercises.

  When I asked why he laughed, he said that there was a JW in his unit that LOVED shooting, lobbing grenades and being first in line ..."on point"... during training and exercises. The phrase he kept saying whilst laughing was "He loved it."

  It really is a very different belief system to the one I grew up in. I knew people that had to leave their home countries and families and learn a new language to avoid imprisonment for refusing military service.

  i support necessary military interventions now as any sensible person would. I'm neither happy or sad at their change in position for military service. I am simply sad for the hypocrisy and lack of true authority the Watchtower have over and had over so many people and their lives.
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  78

  The handling of child abuse allegations

  by Landy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  there's a lot of criticism surrounding the jw's handling of chiild abuse within their ranks with a lot of it being well deserved.

  but i'm interested to know how people on here think child abuse allegations should be handled.

  there's a few scenarios below, the first couple are easy then it gets a bit more complex.

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  snare&racket

  There is nothing to debate. Call the police and social services to protect the child and potentially other children.

  Let's not leave uneducated, untrained, unqualified men managing criminal sexual abuse.

  On hearing of it they should dial 999 and then do their job, providing pastoral support