Posts by outsmartthesystem

16

1919

by Chariklo in

can anyone explain to me just how and why the jw's confidently believe that jesus came and "inspected" all the other religions and found every one lacking and failing his expectations except the little group of bible students who went on to become the jw's?.

this is the biggest gap between history, logic and common sense and wt belief, to me.

more ludicrous than all the propehecies put together.. i'd be really interested to know all the different strands of this.

outsmartthesystem

The best i've heard from a witness is (after I pointed out how many doctrines were wrong when christ inspected....and that prophecies that would later fail were being spouted at that time)

"that may be true but we know that Jehovah's organization is progressive (insert Prov 4:18). Evidently at the time of Christ's inspection....Jesus was only concerned that the bible students have THESE particular doctrinal points correct (insert immortality of the soul, trinity). The rest would be released progressively"

114

What exactly is a relasionship with God?

by tootired2care in

jw
friends

growing up and jw and being around them all my life i constantly heard the expression "a relasionship with god".

this always confused me, because how do you have a relasionship with someone that doesn't talk back to you after praying?

this was always rationalized as god talks back to you when you read the bible.

outsmartthesystem

I think people that believe in God do so because they WANT to. Believing that they are here for a while and then gone forever does not sit well with most.....so they choose to believe in God. But that's not all. No one wants to believe in an aloof God....so whether you are Christian, Hindu or whatever, you must 1) justify some sort of theodicy (how it is that evil exists when God is all loving and all knowing) and 2) convince yourself that God is not only good and just....but he is particularly interested in you.

Once you've come to this conclusion that God is not only good....but he personally cares about you......it is now human nature to try to reach out to him......much like we do with anyone we believe is nice. Only, God doesn't talk to us. Therefore some say they communicate by reading his holy word. Others say they pray and feel a sense of calm afterward. My honest question is......do people really believe this.....or do they talk themselves into feeling like God has communicated with them (through the bible or through prayer) simply because they want/need to believe that God is truly a personal friend?

Moreover, I've often wondered.....is it possible for endorphins to be released through prayer? (not in a miraculous sense......but a person gets so excited about praying to some omnibenevolent, omnipotent, omniscient being that endorphins are released....thus causing an overall "good" feeling that is easily mistaken to be the calming or reassuring effect of holy spirit?)

What I've found is that belief far outweighs fact. If a person wants to believe that he can be friends with God (whether through bible reading, prayer, meditation, or whatever)......then he will believe it. Whatever good that happens will be the result of his friendly relationship with God. Whatever bad that happens was Satan or time and unforeseen occurrence. (but God helped him through those trying times)

19

Visit from anointed

by wezz in

jw
friends

so tonight i get to be graced by the presence of one of the anointed.

last time he visited to help me i told him that i have a problem with the 1914 date.

now obviously every single aspect of this date is wrong, but i started off by asking how come they end it in 537 instead of 539, when the king of babylon obviously received his punishment in 539, as foretold by jeremiah.

outsmartthesystem

I would grill him over and over and over again on 607BC. I have OODLES of info on that subject. Without 607.....you don't come to 1914. Without 1914, you don't come to 1919 and the supposed selection by Jesus of the "bible students" as his "faithful slave". Without christ's selection of the "faithful slave" they have no basis for authority.

Once 607 is debunked....it does not matter how many wars have broken out. It does not matter if Time magazine spoke of WWI as a prophecy being fulfilled. All of that stuff is smoke and mirrors. He needs 607 to be true for any of the other stuff to matter. He is trying to build a flashy mansion on swamp land.

48

what was the reason for canceling the book study in private homes

by reds in

jw
friends

outsmartthesystem

I think it was 2 fold

1) bookstudy was much more relaxed. after the study.....ones would actually discuss the material....maybe even (gasp) make a personal observation or opinion. For whatever reason...people felt comfortable doing so in a private home. How do you eliminate that? Have the book study at the KH. No one would dare pull such a stunt at the KH

2) bookstudy had very poor attendance. It was a black eye for the society

23

Anyone been to a meeting after a drink...or three?

by MMXIV in

jw
friends

i recall going to the second half of a thursday night meeting after what was meant to be a cheeky after work beer (three strong beers downed quickly on an empty stomach).

i would have been ok had a caring elder not decided to grab me for some encouragement afterwards.. i hoped the faint odor of smoke on my clothes (smoking in pubs was still the done thing in those days) wouldn't be noticed but hard to hide alcohol on the breath.

i tried to say very little and talk in a way that avoided me beathing over him.

outsmartthesystem

No but when I was 16 I smoked a doobie and then went......voluntarily!

I didn't HAVE to go. I went because I thought it would be a good idea. Let no one say that pot doesn't mess up one's mind!

62

A new member of the thinking class

by Captain Obvious in

jw
friends

this is my first post on this forum, though it feels like i already know some of you here.

i have been lurking for a couple of months now, and i must say, there honestly seems to be more love and respect here than any forum i have ever seen on any forum of any kind.

i am 25 years old, married 3 years to my wonderful wife who is 22. we had a somewhat classic jw upbringing... which i now know has been our biggest problem.

outsmartthesystem

Captain - Welcome! If your wife isn't ready to know the truth....then you can give her every fact in the world and she will still find a way to dismiss it. It sounds like she is not ready. If I were you I'd quit trying to discuss doctrine with her. Dr. Hassan is right. Discussing doctrine will do nothing but invoke the cult personality which will stop at nothing to defend the organization.

My wife is exactly like yours. Raised as a witness but had no idea about the supposed 1919 selection by Christ...etc. Our wives have been taught to trust and believe in an authoritative structure in lieu of having a deep understanding of WHY they should give such implicit trust.

My wife will admit that there is a lot evidence against 607BC. But when I ask her to provide something.....ANYthing in support of 607....she just gets angry and tells me she doesn't owe me an explanation. She knows there is a problem but isn't strong enough to face the truth.

She knows the society has engaged in lies and deceit but passes it off as mere imperfection.

Somehow....someway it still HAS to be God's organization so she shuts out any other thoughts.

You've got a very tough situation on your hands. Keep in mind that if you finish your research and determine as I did....that you can not with a good conscience ever step inside a KH again......it will not go well. Eventually your wife will tell her family. The elders will want to meet with you to "encourage" you. Depending on what you tell the elders.....you could very well be on the chopping block. Even if you refuse to meet with them, your wife will lovingly "trust" them and tell them what you've told her if they start prying her for answers. What I am saying is that there is a chance that the elders or maybe even her parents may convince her that she is in "spiritual danger" living with you.

Tread carefully

6

The athiest's book of bible stories.....

by outsmartthesystem in

does anyone happen to have a current link to it?

.

outsmartthesystem

Does anyone happen to have a current link to it?

9

Paying for the magazines

by outsmartthesystem in

aren't there still some countries that exist in which the society makes the "brothers" pay for literature?

(like it was up until 2 decades ago) if so....does anyone have a list of them?

.

outsmartthesystem

Thanks Blondie

When it all goes on line.......the society will send out a letter to all congregations explaining how high the cost is of web site development, maintenance, security, etc etc. Congregations will read between the lines and assume that it is somehow MORE expensive for the society to operate in this manner and proceed to make even more donations than before.

9

Paying for the magazines

by outsmartthesystem in

aren't there still some countries that exist in which the society makes the "brothers" pay for literature?

(like it was up until 2 decades ago) if so....does anyone have a list of them?

.

outsmartthesystem

Aren't there still some countries that exist in which the society makes the "brothers" pay for literature? (like it was up until 2 decades ago) If so....does anyone have a list of them?

63

Can You Answer These 16 Bible Questions Honestly?

by The Searcher in

what does the bible really teach?

using only the bible, can you prove - 1. who the 'other sheep' are?

2. the context of john 10:16?

outsmartthesystem

good questions!