Posts by outsmartthesystem

76

What the Watchtower needs to do to survive.

by jwfacts in

drop its teaching on paradise earth.. the primary issue facing the watchtower results from it's teaching that members will never die, but live forever on this earth in paradise.

this teaching is cause of most of the doctrinal failures, and will be its eventual demise.. the promise of never dying is one of the foremost motivations for people that join the religion, and the message of living forever in paradise is compelling.

however, it is also the watchtower's achilles heel, as it forces false predictions of the nearness of the end.

outsmartthesystem

Making such a change would also demand a changing of the guard with Ezekiel 18:4 and Eccl 9: 5 and 10, (immortality of the soul), no? So not only would the idea of a paradise earth be gone....but another staple of their core teaching (one they point to as being one of the "truths" that made Jesus select them in 1919) would disappear with it. Think about how many publications would have to be disregarded or re-written. Certainly plausible.....but I just can't see witnesses going for that regardless of how much "obey us implicitly" rubbish the GB throws out. I believe that 90% if not higher of all witnesses are a part of this religion because they want everlasting life in a paradise.....not because they love God. That alone is a selfish reason to "serve". If you take away their selfish prize I think you'll have a massive amount of sheeple that will suddenly learn how to think.

Since "the end is right around the corner" IS their teaching (as Cedars said)....I don't see how they can abandon it. I truly believe that they are in stage 1 of conditioning witnesses to live their lives in expectation of "the end" coming at any moment......yet also in stage one of separately getting them to accept that "the end" may not come in their lifetime. You may say that is impossible......but over time.....I think they can succeed. They've managed to get 7 million people to buy into the belief that God still speaks ONLY THROUGH them so the sheeple must obey all edicts if they want to please God....yet they must not get upset if the GB ends up being wrong because the GB don't claim to be inspired. If the GB can get the sheeple to buy into this provisional infallibliity theory then they can.....with time.....get the masses to accept that they may not live to see "the end".....yet still maintain eagerness. I think that within 10-15 years the teaching will be "The end is right around the corner. Can't you feel it? We are so close to the finish line, now is not the time to tire out! But even if time and unforeseen occurrence should befall us in this system, you may rest assured Jehovah will resurrect you in paradise! Imagine all the things you will be able to do in paradise! You can blah blah blah". I think they are going to start sneaking the "fact" that WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE into their literature and talks. It will be prefaced by pleads to persevere in the time remaining and followed up closely by red herring paradise speak. JWs will focus on the need to keep pressing on.....and then focus on how lovely the "new system" will be without really realizing that they are being conditioned to accept that they will die.

I agree though. The internet is killing them. Regardless of what doctrinal methods they use....it is only a matter of time before negative growth sets in.

15

WT Indulging In Nostalgia, Soliciting Memorabilia; What's Up?

by Room 215 in

you may have notice in a recent kool-aid watchtower, the announcement of its creation at headquarters of an archive of photos, objects, memorabilia, etc.

i noticed that the lavishly upgraded assembly hall in buckingham, pa. now display in the lobby, glass cases with all sort of such objects.

it wasn't long ago when they disparaged nostalgia as the preoccupation of spritually bankrupted wordlings who, bereft of any hope for the future, pitiably cling to memories of the "good old days"..... what's up with jehovah's "forward looking" people??

outsmartthesystem

I agree with Sir82. If they seek out enough tame articles from the early 1900's and promote them.....those witnesses with curiosities will read them and be satisfied that the organization really wasn't that different back then. And that the articles back then were not crazy and very beneficial. And if they proudly display old literature in glass casings....well.....that does wonders to ease the minds of curious witnesses with questions. It'll be.....

"Surely if the society proudly displays these old pieces of literature......there must be nothing wrong with them, right? There is no way the society would put something that proves that they aren't God's sole channel of communication in a glass case right here in the assembly hall. Just the fact that they aren't afraid to display this is proof in and of itself that there is nothing wrong with the old literature. I mean.....what's the point in even reading it now?"

It is a classic aggressive bully move. It is similar to a man that is cheating on his wife. His wife has suspicions but not hard proof yet. So she asks him. He gets angry and feigns like he is deeply hurt that she would accuse him of such a thing. He asks her what he ever did to deserve this. He suggests marriage counseling because obviously she doesn't love him like she should. Just like that....she is guilted and in a way bullied into no longer having the suspicion that she rightly carried to begin with.

6

Sound Familiar?

by Jack C. in

jw
friends

how the watchtower society brainwashes its members..... .

brainwashing & mind control techniques.

the term "brainwashing" came into common language through the work of american journalist edward hunter who was an expert of oriental issues; the very word being the direct translation of chinese "hsi-nao".

outsmartthesystem

great list

32

Pioneers and Their Way of Counting "Time"

by Eiben Scrood in

jw
friends

in the congregations in my area there was an expression to the effect that 'there's counting time and then there's the way pioneers count their time'.

the watchtower's guidelines were pretty strict on when time could be counted.

some pioneers followed it and others didn't.. on particularly motivated young man comes to mind, he would work full-time or close to it and pioneer.

outsmartthesystem

Around here the pioneers are famous for their "star" routes. RV on the northwest side of town. Now RV on the southeast side of town. Now RV on southwest side of town. Now RV on the northeast side of town. In one hour they would famously make 2 or 3 calls....sometimes none of them being home.

Many would count their time while they eat so long as they leave a tract at the table for the waitress when they are finished.

Think about this scenario: van full of pioneers. 7 of them. They meet at 9:00 am. They head out to field circus at 9:15 and immediately stop by the local grocery store. One person gets out of the van and offers a magazine to a mother of 4 children who is trying to put groceries away while wrangling 4 children. The mother declines the magazine. "Time" has started. The van drives 30 minutes to the farthest territory from the KH. It is rural. Each home is at least 1/4 mile from the next. Each driveway is about 1/4 mile long. By 10:00 the driver gets out at the first home and knocks on the door. No answer. He spends 1 minute waiting. He leaves a magazine in the door and goes back to the car. They slowly drive down the driveway and onto the country road. They drive 1/4 mile down the road and turn into the next driveway. They drive up the driveway and passenger 1 gets out. She knocks on the door. It is now 10:06. She waits one minute. She leaves a magazine in the door and goes back to the car. This is repeated 8 more times. It is now 11:00 and Sister Smallbladder has to go to the bathroom. They drive 10 minutes to the local McDonalds. Everyone goes to the bathroom...but they also order a light snack. Brother Zealous offers the mentally handicapped bus boy a magazine that shows a small child petting a lion. The mentally handicapped individual wants to pet lions too so he is very interested. Brother Zealous promises to come back and talk to him again. Since Brother Zealous gave the individual a tract....they get to keep counting their "time". Brother Zealous is then commended by the rest of the car group. Jehovah must have directed them to that McDonalds. It is now 11:30 and they leave the McDonalds. They drive 10 minutes back to their territory. At 11:40 they begin again. They call on 10 more homes....taking 6 minutes between door knocks. It is now 12:40 and they are hungry. These are pioneers so they don't have a lot of money. Everyone packed their lunch. But they don't want to eat in the car. They want to enjoy the beautiful day that Jehovah gave them so they drive 10 minutes to the park. They get out, spread out a blanket, everyone sits down and eats while discussing what a wonderful day it has been thus far. A local walker makes the mistake of inquiring why everyone is so dressed up. Brother Zealous explains that they are JWs. The walker politely accepts a magazine so he can get away. They get to keep counting their time. They wrap up lunch and head back to the territory. It is now 1:30.

They have been out in service since for 4 hours and 15 minutes. Collectively they have called on 20 total homes. 16 of those were not at home. This means that they talked to a total of 7 people (including the mom at the grocery, the bus boy, and the walker at the park). But never fear....they stuffed 16 magazines in each of the 16 not at home doors.

Multiply this by 2 for their afternoon session of field service and you now have 8 hours and 30 minutes of field service. 40 total homes called on.....32 of which were not home. 13 total people were contacted during the day. 6 of those told the witnesses to take a hike. 7 politely listened and accepted magazines. Add to those 7 the 32 total not at home doors and this group collectively "placed" 39 magazines. But wait....it gets better. They got to count their time during both the morning and afternoon bathroom breaks AND during lunch. So each person in the car group got 8 hours and 30 minutes of field circus. That is 59.5 collective hours of field service! Yep. 59.5 hours. 40 homes called on. 7 people in the car group. That means that in 8 1/2 hours time....each person actually made an attempt to "preach" to someone 5.7 times. That is less than 1 home per hour per person.

Yes. This theocratic inefficiency is being blessed by Jehovah.

14

9:40 Symposium:Motivate Right hearted Ones to Love . . . Their Spiritual Father (Acts 13:48; 16:14) Their Spiritual Mother (Proverbs 6:20)

by wolfman85 in

this is a topic for dc 2012. it turns out that more than 7 million jw are not the spiritual children of god to the wt, the most we can hope for is to be his friends.

are we or are we not spiritual children of god?

the truth is that this organization has made us spiritual bastards.. the other theme of "spiritual mother" has pagan and idolatrous connotations.

outsmartthesystem

BOC - Remember the Vess cola before Shasta? And the hoagies? Ohhhhh the hoagies

67

My mother is trying to indoctrinate my 4 year old and I do not know what to do

by jwfacts in

my mother lives a plane trip away from me, so does not get to spend very much time with zac.

however, she is in sydney for 3 weeks and has been babysitting.

i knew that she would be talking about jehovah, but was very annoyed yesterday when zac said my mother was speaking all day about jehovah, such as how he made the stars.. in the past, i was not overly concerned if zac learnt about jehovah's witnesses, as i thought it would help with critical thinking skills to understand different points of view.

outsmartthesystem

"Steve, great idea. If I ask Mum how she would feel if I started trying to contact my JW neice and nephew to teach them my beliefs, she may appreciate the depth of emotion that raises. "

Paul, I wish that was the case and I hope you succeed. But I fear that she will miss the point. I tried a similar message to my wife. My wife wonders why I don't want to go to "congregation" get-togethers. I explained it like this: "If you used to be a Pentecostal...and then you spent 2 years investigating your religion only to discover that it too is filled with falsehoods....would you want to go hang out with a bunch of Pentecostals that will be speaking about their latest missionary trip and how God is blessing them?" Naturally she didn't see the connection because THEY (Pentecostals) are false religion.....but the witnesses have the TRUE religion.

I fear that your mom will completely miss the point. She will only look at it through her rose colored glasses. If you tried to contact your JW neice to teach your beliefs....that would be a tragedy because YOU HAVE LEFT JEHOVAH. She hasn't left Jehovah....so to her....her situation is different. She is right and you are wrong. Therefore there is nothing that should stand in the way of her teaching the right thing to your son. Jehovah's Witnesses siimply cannot reason when the fact that they might be wrong is an option.

67

My mother is trying to indoctrinate my 4 year old and I do not know what to do

by jwfacts in

my mother lives a plane trip away from me, so does not get to spend very much time with zac.

however, she is in sydney for 3 weeks and has been babysitting.

i knew that she would be talking about jehovah, but was very annoyed yesterday when zac said my mother was speaking all day about jehovah, such as how he made the stars.. in the past, i was not overly concerned if zac learnt about jehovah's witnesses, as i thought it would help with critical thinking skills to understand different points of view.

outsmartthesystem

Your message is exactly what I would send. But don't expect her to pay attention to it. I am sure she loves you but she thinks your mind is controlled by Satan and it is her DUTY to try to save her grandson from you. She may stop preaching to him for a while....but it will pick back up again. She will try to be more discreet.....but it will pick back up again. She will lie. She will deceive. But to her....it isn't really a lie since you are standing in teh way of her "teaching" your son.

She will attempt to use some sort of "theocratic warfare"

26

need your opinion on "who else preaches like the JWs?"

by outsmartthesystem in

i have a friend that has recently confided in me his doubts about the society being god's one and only organization.

his doubts run pretty deep.....but he is very much held in check by "but who else is preaching about the kingdom of god world-wide like jesus said"?

how would you combat that thinking?

outsmartthesystem

Glenster - Thank you for your clarifications. I understand your point of Maher painting those that are religious with the same brush that he paints extremists. And yes, I would agree that it is the same type of "generalising" that the Watchtower engages in. Yet I still do not get how he "proposes an athiest armageddon". His rhetoric was that of a warning........ that religious extremeism may very well result in "armageddon" since we, as humans, now actually have the power and means to cause mass extermination. He was not proposing that he wishes it would happen (if that is what you were insinuating)

26

need your opinion on "who else preaches like the JWs?"

by outsmartthesystem in

i have a friend that has recently confided in me his doubts about the society being god's one and only organization.

his doubts run pretty deep.....but he is very much held in check by "but who else is preaching about the kingdom of god world-wide like jesus said"?

how would you combat that thinking?

outsmartthesystem

Glenster - I am not sure I follow anything you've written thus far. It appears to be off topic jargon unless I am missing something.

And...btw...I've watched Religulous too. Maher most certainly does not "propose" an Athiest armageddon. In fact....he warns that a man-made armageddon may be on the way if we as humans can't get past the devisive hatred that religion tends to cause.

Here are his closing statements:

"The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end. The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith, and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting shit dead wrong. This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a terrible price. If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, for the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. If the world does come to an end here, or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was that we learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die.

26

need your opinion on "who else preaches like the JWs?"

by outsmartthesystem in

i have a friend that has recently confided in me his doubts about the society being god's one and only organization.

his doubts run pretty deep.....but he is very much held in check by "but who else is preaching about the kingdom of god world-wide like jesus said"?

how would you combat that thinking?

outsmartthesystem

thanks everyone