growing up, this is something that my other always told me.
i've had several conversations with older sisters who have said that if they could do things over, they wouldn't have had children.
other couples my own age are horrified at the thought of raising children in "this system".
For the record.....I'd like to say that when I bought my minivan I was very embarrased. Now...2 years later I love it! When you're in your 30's with kids, being cool is trumped by being practical. You wouldn't believe how roomy it is! Once you go minivan you'll never go back is what they say.....
Or is that just what I say because I am trying to talk myself into believing that I am still cool and my minivan is a chick magnet?
i've sent quite a few new pms on a number of subjects but had no responses.
am i being ignored or is there some sort of it problem?
i don't want to be a pest and nag....but if it is an it problem i'd like to get it fixed.
Ok Falcon. What song is that and by whom?
i've sent quite a few new pms on a number of subjects but had no responses.
am i being ignored or is there some sort of it problem?
i don't want to be a pest and nag....but if it is an it problem i'd like to get it fixed.
Ouch baby. Very ouch.
i always liked the awake better because it wasn't as preachy.
less analyzing of what minute thing some guy in a robe and sandals did thousands of years ago and its application for our day.
the awake seemed more secular and less dogmatic.
Awake - Less dogmatic interpretation of scripture and forced doctrine and more educational tidbits on geography/nature etc.
i've sent quite a few new pms on a number of subjects but had no responses.
am i being ignored or is there some sort of it problem?
i don't want to be a pest and nag....but if it is an it problem i'd like to get it fixed.
I've sent quite a few new PMs on a number of subjects but had no responses. Am I being ignored or is there some sort of IT problem? I don't want to be a pest and nag....but if it is an IT problem I'd like to get it fixed.
And I've had 4 pm's come my way....but all the responses I've sent back have gone unanswered.
Or perhaps being a relative newbie...I shouldn't expect PMs to be answered yet until others are more comfortable with my presence here? I don't know the protocol.
growing up, this is something that my other always told me.
i've had several conversations with older sisters who have said that if they could do things over, they wouldn't have had children.
other couples my own age are horrified at the thought of raising children in "this system".
Amen Mad Sweeney. Witnesses are trained to believe that the world is getting worse. They look at the decline in moral values (porn being readily accessible on the internet.......gay marriages being allowed etc) and they say "see! look how bad it's getting". But they completely ignore the fact that in terms of freedom (to worship), economics, education, health care, life expectancy etc.....it has never been so good.
I've heard witnesses lament that they woudl have rather raised their children a "long long time ago"......when things "weren't so bad". Evidenly lower life expectancy and poor medical care don't matter to those witnesses. They would rather their children live in unsanitary conditions, have poor health care and die young than have to shield them from....gasp.....moral uncleanliness.
we've all seen these demos a million times... perfectly rehearsed mini-dramas at the end of the theocratic school and during the service meetings (usually played by the same "exemplary" publishers and pioneers of the elite congo clique).
you know what i'm talking about... the ones where they always speak the right words and cite the "appropriate" proof texts in perfect harmony with borg guidelines.
so much so, that new "studies" or visitors who are unfamiliar with these "elite" brothers and sisters are completely awe-struck by their enthusiasm, "spirituality" and eloquence displayed on stage.. but then an inexplicable "phenomena" unfolds every saturday at 9am.
Amen everyone. The borg has made it so that the message is to be received with open arms by a population that is rather uneducated and is easily convinced. I've watched it over the years. Look at the people that witnesses study with and bring to the KH. Ex-convicts. Former druggies. People that look like they've just crawled out of a cardboard box in an alley. People that have lived good lives....but are extremely uneducated.......
I think they all have something in common. They all hear a wonderful story about never dying and living in paradise and it is intriguing. They are presented with enough scriptures taken out of context to make them believe it may be true. They never learned critical thinking skills so the odds of them really doing research and learnign the true history of witnesses is nil.
Contrast that with an astute householder that raises important questions. I've seen it time and time again. Hell....it happened to me on occasion. The householder raises good questions that the witness can't answer so the witness wants to change the subject back to something he feels more comfortable about. But the householder insists that his question be answered. So the witness says he will do some research and come back. He then goes to the car and tells the rest of the passengers that this householder was just being obstinate. The householder just wanted to argue. He was not "rightly disposed". The witness never does the research and never calls back. He just keeps searching for that uneducated person that lacks critical thinking skills that will ask only basic questions that can be answered with a modern publication.
outsmart - you keep mentioning the imperfections of the elders....and how people need to overlook them because we are all imperfect and we need to learn what true humility is.....etc etc.
dj - if this is what you believe to be true, then you are mistaken, because even though jehovah's witnesses are directed by holy spirit, we have at times 'gotten it wrong.
dj - i can agree that jehovah's witnesses are god's mouthpiece today, that we do speak for god.
You appear to be having some posting issues as well.
At least I'm not the only one
i have a very close jw friend who i have known for a number of years.
she was like the big sister i never had, always looking out for me and was very helpful during my challenging moments.
we both came into the religion around the same time and both of us were pretty much fringe dubs, just making the bare minimum to be considered jw in good standing.
I've come to the point that I agree with the masses. Debating doctrine is never a good idea. But what worked for me was a simple and friendly challenge from a good friend that had faded. He knew that the reason I trusted the society and followed every teaching change without question was because they were chosen in 1919 by Christ himself. It wasn't until I reasoned on what was being taught by the witnesses back in 1919 when Jesus supposedly chose the society that I realized there is no way Jesus could have chosen them. Jehovah's Witnesses claim that in 1919, we were the only ones teaching true things at the proper time.....which is why Jesus chose them. Don Cameron's book "Captives of a Concept" is amazing. It identifies that illusionary concept that holds all witnesses captive (that Jesus selected the society as God's organization in 1919).
You don't want to bombard her and you don't want to offer an "apostate" book to her. But it sounds like 1) you are close enough to her to have a heart to heart and 2) she has in the past displayed characteristics that indicate that she IS able to think for herself. If this is true...I'd consider picking a point or two out of the book (regarding what was being taught in 1919) and asking her to sincerely help you understand why Jesus would have picked the society as his faithful slave...given all the WRONG things they were teaching at the WRONG time.
If it doesn't go well....don't push it. YOu don't want to lose a friend forever. If she has come to the conclusion that she wants to know the truth....then you'll know. If she doesn't then a million words spoken by you will fall upon deaf ears
on another thread concernedjw used an interesting quote from jesus at matt 5:5 'the meek shall inherit the earth.
' fair comment i'd say.
but jesus didn't say 'paradise' earth.. now i know some of you don't believe in the bible (which i respect), and i'm not after a debate.. what i'm interested to hear is how you would refyte that jesus was not talking about a jw 'paradise earth'.
The society's own literature admits that Psalm 37: 11, 29 was referring to the promise God gave to the Israelites had they not defected time and time again. Yet the society also inexplicably teaches that is has a second fulfillment. To go along with that idea, you could say, "but the Christian Greek scriptures were written with the anointed in mind.....not the "other sheep"". "Therefore Matthew 5:5 is clearly saying that all those mild tempered ones that die and go to heaven "inherit the earth" in the sense that they are now rulers with Christ over the earth." "Nowhere does Matthew 5:5 say that people would live forever on it and that it would be a paradise."
w74 6/15 p. 377 par. 13 Serve with Eternity in View ***
3 In Psalm 37:11, 29 David wrote: “The meek ones themselves will possess the earth, . . . The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” In saying this he evidently drew upon what should have been the case with regard to the Promised Land in his days and in the following generations. According to God’s covenant with Abraham, the wicked pagans who had lived in the land should be cleared out. (Gen. 15:18-21; 17:8; Deut. 7:22; Josh. 21:43-45) Thus each successive generation of righteous worshipers making up the nation of Israel could have resided on the land, the portion of the earth that God gave to them. (Deut. 30:20) We know, however, that the majority of the Israelites proved unfaithful, and so they did not carry out God’s purpose in that regard. In fact, finally God let the Assyrians and Babylonians conquer and depopulate the land temporarily.
