Morbidz.......that absolutely breaks my heart to read that.
Why don't you have any contact with your kids?
outsmartthesystem
JoinedPosts by outsmartthesystem
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Parenting - The JW Way
by What Now? in[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-us</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!
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[endif]one year ago today, i was 40 weeks pregnant and my husband and i were sitting at home, watching a movie.
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JW FAMOUS CLICHE SAYINGS
by strymeckirules inwhat saying made it all around the country?.
the ones that were passed around, word of mouth.. for example.
"donations basis proves jehovah is behind the work!".
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outsmartthesystem
Aren't we appreciative for new light that Jehovah progressively reveals?
What kills me is that when witnesses say this they are ultimately saying "we can't wait for the future to show us how wrong we are right now"
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The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One inregarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.
but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.
that would clearly have been a mistake.
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outsmartthesystem
the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.
Thequietone - I would sincerely like to hear your reply to the above. The Watchtower society printed on their magazine for decades that it was God's promise that a new world would be here prior to the generation that saw the events of 1914 passing away. Please tell us your thoughts on this. What is the difference between saying "God says the end is coming between x date and x date" and saying "it is God's promise that the end will come before those that saw the events of 1914 pass away"? Seriously what is the difference? It is a matter of clever semantics. If God approves of the society and doesn't consider them to be false prophets simply due to a technicality then that is a God I want nothing to do with.
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2011 Watchtower publisher statistics with analysis
by jwfacts inthe 2012 yearbook has released the publisher statistics for the 2011 service year.
a scan of the report can be found at http://www.jwfacts.com/images/2011-publisher-report.pdf and i have started updating the graphs at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.
as expected, it is following on from similar trends to the last 15 years.
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outsmartthesystem
"It seems that the greatest influence the internet is having has been in preventing people joining."
Paul, you nailed it. It is extremely difficult to reverse the mind control and indoctrination once it starts. But for those "worldly" ones that may have shown interest.....there is nothing keeping them from researching the truth about witnesses. These ones are not indoctrinated yet....not controlled yet. Therefore they research and get the hell away. New converts in advanced countries are becoming harder and harder to come by. The less educated can be controlled and manipulated. Born ins can be controlled from an early age.
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2011 Watchtower publisher statistics with analysis
by jwfacts inthe 2012 yearbook has released the publisher statistics for the 2011 service year.
a scan of the report can be found at http://www.jwfacts.com/images/2011-publisher-report.pdf and i have started updating the graphs at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.
as expected, it is following on from similar trends to the last 15 years.
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outsmartthesystem
"Auxiliary pioneers up by 60% - is that right?
Is there a reason for that? Did they have a special campaign or did they lower the hour requirement or what?"
I knew this would happen. YES! Back in April there was a "wonderful provision" from the slave. They lowered the hour requirement to be considered an auxilary pioneer to 30 hours for that month. People came out of the woodwork in order to sign up so they could have that lovely moniker of "auxilary pioneer" attached to their name. The society lowered their standards so they could get the number higher. Yet all the witnesses will view this report and say "wow! look how many pioneers there were! jehovah's blessings are really being poured out!" And none of them will notice that it was all because of lower standards.
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rec'd a letter in the mail (similar to Shaky Ground's text)
by outsmartthesystem inthis one was from an elder's wife.
she has been quite ill for some time.
the sad thing is, i do like her.
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outsmartthesystem
This one was from an elder's wife. She has been quite ill for some time. The sad thing is, I do like her. Very nice woman. But the message was basically "I don't know how much time I have left......but it is my dying wish that you come back to the kingdom hall".
It wasn't chastising letter. But it shows you how witnesses are trained to think. Whether it is trying to make you feel guilty about potentially not seeing your dead relatives in the "new system"........or trying to make you feel guilty about "leaving Jehovah" or trying to make you feel guilty by no giving someone their dying wish..........the message is still the same. "we will stop at nothing to get you back to the KH."
Guilt, manipulation, and deceit are all ok so long as the outcome gets a person back towing the line. What is so maddening is that they truly believe they are doing the right thing. They believe they are saving your life.....and to them.....guilt....trickery or any other measure is ok because of the final outcome (that you'll be in the new system)
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The Control is simply amazing
by outsmartthesystem inat the kind advice of so many of you (and hassan) on this board....i ceased attempting to discuss doctrine/failures with my wife many months ago.
but unfortunately that does not prevent her from grilling me from time to time.
during one of our infamous "discussions" she said she was going to "investigate" this supposed "proof" that is out there regarding 587bc.
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outsmartthesystem
Ziddina - I truly appreciate your suggestion. And I do see how it may work over a given period of time. But I'd be lying if I told you I was excited about trying it out. Using the same approach on her to try to frustrate her in even the smallest, mundane things of life would....I am afraid.....put an even heavier burden on our already shaky relationship. If I used this approach, would I not incur more and more evenings/weekends of tension in lieu of peace? Even if I make a subtle point and then back away.....the frustration has set in and the mood has now changed. Then again.....that appears to be the whole point of the exercise, no? I guess it is a matter of whether or not I can take even more tension.......or whether or not I think she is at her breaking point.
"Is she prepared to shun her own children, or parents, and treat them if they are mentally diseased if they get thrown out of her church because they don't believe a doctrine she doesn't understand or won't defend to them?"
I already asked her that question. She said without hesitation, "yes, because only those that commit gross wrongs are DFd". I brought up to her specific examples of how that thinking is faulty. How people do get disfellowshipped even when they shouldn't. I even brought up a talk that the CO gave where he explained that a man had been wrongly DFd and stayed that way for over 10 years before the truth was found out and he was reinstated. I brought up to her my position. I am a man that loves his family. I do not live an immoral lifestyle. But through much research I've determined that the Witnesses are full of shit. What happens if her daughter determines the same thing 20 years from now and gets DFd for it? She isn't a bad person....she just simply happens to disagree with the mandates of the society. My wife could only say "I guess we'd just have to see how the situation presents itself". And then she followed that up with "besides....no one gets disfellowshipped for disagreeing with the society. You have to be an active apostate trying to recruit others in order for that to happen". That's what she has been told by her dad therefore that is what she believes.
"I have got my Dubs to lie and try to deceive me and now use that to let them know, in no uncertain terms, that through their own dishonesty, they kicked their own high horse out from under themselves "
Blacksheep, would you mind expounding on that?
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The Control is simply amazing
by outsmartthesystem inat the kind advice of so many of you (and hassan) on this board....i ceased attempting to discuss doctrine/failures with my wife many months ago.
but unfortunately that does not prevent her from grilling me from time to time.
during one of our infamous "discussions" she said she was going to "investigate" this supposed "proof" that is out there regarding 587bc.
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outsmartthesystem
"Always ask a simple question.
Then ... if neccessary ..... show her the magazine or book and ask her to read it to you and explain it to you.
Your goal should be to keep her on topic and and point out ...... through questions ...... any faulty logic, double standards, hypocracy, bad behaviour, etc.. E.g. If she uses a double standard, try to recall a time when you heard her slag off a member of another church for doing the same thing and ask her a question on it, or if you know the WT did that, get her to read the article to you. You will find a lot of relevent material by searching the official Watchtower website for 'propaganda'."
I've been down so many different roads it isn't funny. I've also tried this approach.....begging with her to show me from the literature why she believes a certain way and to cross reference the belief, the literature and the bible. She got angry and basically said how DARE I be condescending and treat her like a child. She owes me NO explanation. I managed to get her calmed down and made her truly believe that I DO want her to try to explain to me why she is so sure she is right. But when she realizes that she can't she then reverts back to "I can't explain it.....this is why we need the elders here". The reasoning she uses (not surprisingly) is completely circular....and when she cannot explain....it always reverts back to "see? This is why we need the elders".
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The Control is simply amazing
by outsmartthesystem inat the kind advice of so many of you (and hassan) on this board....i ceased attempting to discuss doctrine/failures with my wife many months ago.
but unfortunately that does not prevent her from grilling me from time to time.
during one of our infamous "discussions" she said she was going to "investigate" this supposed "proof" that is out there regarding 587bc.
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outsmartthesystem
"Has she examined examined doctrinal flip-flops? That was what really got to me. the "superior Authorities" flip-flop is a very simple one to use since it's straight forward and is discussed in the Proclaimers Book. Of course, that "candid" description make no mention of a flip flop, but only refers to a single change. If she is unwilling to even look at the flipflops from our own literature, she's got a looooooong way to go"
Many months ago...I thought I could smack her upside the head with facts and she would love me so much more for waking her up. Ha! This was one of the issues I brought up. For each flip flop I brought up she would try to correct me and say it was a "revision due to increased light". When I showed her that it wasn't increased light at all but rather a return to an old extinguished light....she explained how much more encouraging such a return should be because it proves that the society is humble and willing to admit their mistakes without being stubborn. After all these are imperfect men that sometimes get God's direction wrong.
She is willing to look at old literature but truly believes it is a waste of time because it is no longer what is being taught. They've trained her to believe that old light is inconsequential.
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Not sure what to tell my 4 year old about Santa
by jwfacts inmy adorable little son is very excited about christmas.
i have not made a big thing about it, but he must have picked up the christmas spirit from what he is seeing in the shops and on tv.
he loves the music, and movies and all the decorations.
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outsmartthesystem
Honestly my friend....I would tell him the same thing I would say in regard to other mythological fantasies. Just like the magic carpet in Aladdin....Santa Clause is pretend. But just because it is pretend doesn't mean you can't still have fun with it. Kids have vivid imaginations. He can imagine jolly ol St Nick giving presents to all the kids and riding around on a sleigh just as easily as he can imagine himself riding on a magic carpet. Tell him that Santa is just pretend.....but let his imagination run wild with it