Regarding what some have said here about the WT being a false prophet.. I would like to make my point regarding the WT not being a false prophet... So please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what I am getting at.. A false prophet is one who, according to Deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from God, or in other words claiming that 'God has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. For example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "God will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously. But, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of God, (as Moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. He was still a prophet or spokesman for God) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of Isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that God WILL end the world in that year.. but only that there was Biblical evidence that God might do so. That would clearly have been a mistake. He shouldn't have promoted a theory so strongly about a specific year, because the Bible doesn't tell you exactly when it (the end of the world) will happen.. only that it will, and that people need to be warned. But who doesn't make mistakes (even ones that are costly or embarassing) ? Moses certainly did. The person in my example did not give a prophecy of the future, did he? He promoted an interpretation of a Bible prophecy (to relate this to 1975, the Bible prophesies that their will be a 'great day of God the Almighty' at the end of the last days, although we don't know when, so it was admittedly a mistake to even guess when the prophecy will be fulfilled) that turned out to be wrong, but he didn't prophesy that 'God WILL end the world in 2010', did he? He promoted an incorrect interpretation of a prophecy, and even if people had decided to sell their homes because they respected him and chose to listen to his Biblical views in the past, despite his statements being a (perhaps over-hyped) theory which was accompanied by NO claims that God had SAID it or God WOULD do it.. Be honest, would any of this PROVE that the man was a false prophet according to the Bibles definition? (which should be the only definition considering that the Bible is the source from which you take the label of 'false prophet' and apply it to the WT) Again, the Bibles definition is that a 'false prophet' is one who makes a false prophecy/prediction of the future in Gods name, in other words telling people that 'God will do this at this time' ? Couldn't the man in my example have been, in theory, a prophet of God who didn't make a future prophecy.. but gave a mistaken interpretation OF a future prophecy that someone else wrote? Remember, Moses acted as Gods leader and spokesman, didn't he? Did he claim that everything that he did and said was directly from God, or infallible? He didn't, and he could not have claimed this.. And neither does the WT. Did Moses make mistakes? So have the WT. Can you prove that the WT made a false prophecy in Gods name.. rather than mistakenly promoting a theory regarding the Biblical prophecy of the end of the world, with a disclaimer making it clear that God has not told them that He will do this, even stating they are not saying that He will (Watchtower 1966 October 15 pp.629,631) , a theory that they perhaps should not have promoted as strongly? Or maybe God was wrong to appoint prophets such as Moses, who don't prophesy about the future in His name, but do make mistakes.. I await the attacks on my character and intelligience for daring to present an opposing viewpoint with bated breath, and I will not respond to anything, as this is all I can say.. Finally, many thanks to IRONDORK for pointing out that there is, Biblically, more than onekind of prophet. You do NOT have to make a prophecy that God will do something in the future to be a prophet. Moses didn't prophesy, but he was a prophet. This IS relevant, because to simply say: WT says they are a prophet + they gave a mistaken interpretation of a Bible prophecy = they're a false prophet... would be a logical fallacy. A person can be a prophet (or messenger of God) and have a mistaken view of a prophecy, without having prophesied about the future or claimed that the prediction came from God. If you do NOT make a prophecy of the future and claim that God said it, you CANNOT be a 'false prophet' according to the Bible. The Biblical criteria of a 'false prophet' thus cannot be applied to the WT. PROVE ME WRONG, if you can... Goodbye and thanks for listening :)
The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet
by The Quiet One 179 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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N.drew
Not so. Who will bring the end? Who do they say will do it?
Then they also say when it will be. So if they know God is going to do it and they say when HE will do it, it is the same as saying God said it, doesn't it?
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No Room For George
Regarding what some have said here about the WT being a false prophet.. I would like to make my point regarding the WT not being a false prophet... So please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what I am getting at.. A false prophet is one who, according to Deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from God, or in other words claiming that 'God has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc..
For example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "God will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously. But, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of God, (as Moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. He was still a prophet or spokesman for God) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of Isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that God WILL end the world in that year.. but only that there was Biblical evidence that God might do so.
That would clearly have been a mistake. He shouldn't have promoted a theory so strongly about a specific year, because the Bible doesn't tell you exactly when it (the end of the world) will happen.. only that it will, and that people need to be warned. But who doesn't make mistakes (even ones that are costly or embarassing) ? Moses certainly did. The person in my example did not give a prophecy of the future, did he? He promoted an interpretation of a Bible prophecy (to relate this to 1975, the Bible prophesies that their will be a 'great day of God the Almighty' at the end of the last days, although we don't know when, so it was admittedly a mistake to even guess when the prophecy will be fulfilled) that turned out to be wrong, but he didn't prophesy that 'God WILL end the world in 2010', did he? He promoted an incorrect interpretation of a prophecy, and even if people had decided to sell their homes because they respected him and chose to listen to his Biblical views in the past, despite his statements being a (perhaps over-hyped) theory which was accompanied by NO claims that God had SAID it or God WOULD do it..
Be honest, would any of this PROVE that the man was a false prophet according to the Bibles definition? (which should be the only definition considering that the Bible is the source from which you take the label of 'false prophet' and apply it to the WT) Again, the Bibles definition is that a 'false prophet' is one who makes a false prophecy/prediction of the future in Gods name, in other words telling people that 'God will do this at this time' ? Couldn't the man in my example have been, in theory, a prophet of God who didn't make a future prophecy.. but gave a mistaken interpretation OF a future prophecy that someone else wrote? Remember, Moses acted as Gods leader and spokesman, didn't he? Did he claim that everything that he did and said was directly from God, or infallible? He didn't, and he could not have claimed this.. And neither does the WT.
Did Moses make mistakes? So have the WT. Can you prove that the WT made a false prophecy in Gods name.. rather than mistakenly promoting a theory regarding the Biblical prophecy of the end of the world, with a disclaimer making it clear that God has not told them that He will do this, even stating they are not saying that He will (Watchtower 1966 October 15 pp.629,631) , a theory that they perhaps should not have promoted as strongly? Or maybe God was wrong to appoint prophets such as Moses, who don't prophesy about the future in His name, but do make mistakes.. I await the attacks on my character and intelligience for daring to present an opposing viewpoint with bated breath, and I will not respond to anything, as this is all I can say..
Finally, many thanks to IRONDORK for pointing out that there is, Biblically, more than onekind of prophet. You do NOT have to make a prophecy that God will do something in the future to be a prophet. Moses didn't prophesy, but he was a prophet. This IS relevant, because to simply say: WT says they are a prophet + they gave a mistaken interpretation of a Bible prophecy = they're a false prophet... would be a logical fallacy. A person can be a prophet (or messenger of God) and have a mistaken view of a prophecy, without having prophesied about the future or claimed that the prediction came from God. If you do NOT make a prophecy of the future and claim that God said it, you CANNOT be a 'false prophet' according to the Bible. The Biblical criteria of a 'false prophet' thus cannot be applied to the WT. PROVE ME WRONG, if you can... Goodbye and thanks for listening :)
There, that's better.
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Knowsnothing
So, your saying Camping=unexcusable BUT,
Watchtower=forgivable?
Mind you, The Quiet One, 1975 wasn't the only example. WT has a long history of date setting, along with other millenarium, adventist groups, or groups that focused on end-time chronologies.
If you research a bit more, you will find that the dates put forth were more than mere suggestions. They were set as "God's dates", not mere mens.
1975 allowed for wiggle room, but not so with dates like 1914 and 1925.
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sabastious
The Revelation book is a whole book on how Bible prophecy points to their literal history. To me that makes them a false prophet of the God of the Bible.
If I conclude that my past actions were fulfillments of Bible prophecy without empirical evidence of those assertions then I am a liar. And if I am a liar in the name of God then I am a false prophet, or representative, of God. Now, if I believe that my past actions were fullfillments of God's purpose, the lacking of empirical evidence doesn't make me wrong, but until that evidence exists calling myself right to others is a lie.
-Sab
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diamondiiz
Maybe you should re-was examine wts. WTS said that they are GOD directed. 1914 was the end not the beginning. 1925 was more biblically sound than 1914. 1975 end of 6000 years, we're not saying the end will come but you brothers know.... (read between the lines)
All these sort of things equal to prophesying. Because these things are being taught and preached outside of a circle of friends where you could claim you were speculating. Also no one is allowed to publicly disagree with these sort of teaching or they will get disfellowshipped for apostasy. When you go in the public and open your big mouth to the world and say that 1914 is the end while claiming to represent God, you act as a prophet.
Prophet is a messenger of God, and wts has that in print, which they applied it to themselves - I would have to find the article if necessary. Deu. can be applied to wts end of story. If you can't see it, then it's your problem not ours.
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cedars
The Quiet One - just a writing tip for you if you don't mind. Please use PARAGRAPHS! Seeing all that writing on the screen with no breaks at all just gives me a headache and makes me not want to read it.
It's very simple, just press the "return" key now and then as you're writing. I hope you can take this tip on board, because it will make your future posts easier to read and respond to.
Cedars
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iCeltic
Cedars took the words from my mouth, so hard to read one big massive paragraph.
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mrsjones5
Yep, I don't read massive paragraphs.
"Prophet is a messenger of God, and wts has that in print, which they applied it to themselves - ... Deu. can be applied to wts end of story. If you can't see it, then it's your problem not ours."
Yup
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iCeltic
It's a play with words here and I find that disturbing. CT Russell said (or was it Rutherford? I can't remember. But if pushed, I will find the quote for you) that the studies in the scripture series was 'practically the bible itself'
I view that and the watchtower July 1st 1943 when it said Jehovah tells the faithful slave how to organise pioneers and special pioneers 'He says' that they are saying they speak for God. Gods visible mouthpiece - cant get clearer than that.
That visible mouthpiece has clearly stated things as fact, FACT, certain things that has not been true. For instance, Awake! 1969 May 22 p15 'if you are a young person, you also need to face the FACT that you will never grow old in this system of things' clearly the visible mouthpiece got that wrong, among countless other things.