Posts by outsmartthesystem

47

New here...need some support

by Freeof1914 in

jw
friends

first of all i am happy to be here..this site has been an invaluable tool which helped me get to the point where i am today.

i was born and raised as a jehovah's witness and i am now 30 yrs old.

my entire family are die hard witnesses; pioneers, elders, bethel etc.

Take a look at some of my posts. I too am in your position only......I have kids too. If there is anything you should learn.....do NOT discuss doctrine with your wife. Against sound advice from members on this board I tried that. My wife begged to know what I was thinking and why. She begged for me to provide her with "proof" that the Watchtower was wrong because as a lover of truth.....she wants to know. Well....after discussing 607 BC in great detail and providing proof after proof....all she could say in return is "I dont' see it that way".

The point being......facts get outweighed by a desire to believe what you want to believe. The only chance you have of saving her is to plant seeds that cause her to do her own research and discover for herself the many problems that exist with past and present teachings of JWs.

Take your time

26

Do Most Witnesses Truly Believe In Their Religion?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i wonder how many witnesses actually believe their religion.

what do you think?.

outsmartthesystem

When I was 19 years old, I recall noticing that not only is there no definitive faithful slave from the 1st century down until the 1800s.....but any that are even remotely mentioned are INDIVIDUALS. So it went from a slave "class" in the 1st century......to individuals......and then back to a "class" again? I asked this question to a particular elder. He reprimanded me for focusing too much on something that does not matter. It does not matter if there was a class or if Jehovah used individuals. What really matters was that I was beginning to question the writings of the faithful slave. Remember what happened to Miriam when she questionned the authority of Moses? She was stricken with leprosy and spent 7 days outside of the camp. Think about how close we are to "the end". Do I want Jehovah to see me questionning trivial things in his organization when the end comes?

That speech scared the shit out of me. I recall praying incessantly that evening....hoping that the God of the book of Numbers wouldn't strike me dead for my insolence. At the time....I was so greatful for the rebuke I received. Now I look back and I realize it was just a fear tactic to get me to fall back in line. I would like to punch that elder in the shnozzle right now.

26

Do Most Witnesses Truly Believe In Their Religion?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i wonder how many witnesses actually believe their religion.

what do you think?.

outsmartthesystem

I think the majority do believe. but there are a LOT that have doubts they simply do not allow themselves to focus on.....thereby claiming imperfection.....and relying that much more heavily on faith that it MUST be the truth and that all will be made well and will come to make sense "in Jehovah's due time".

45

I am speechless over the latest tactic to get people to Pioneer!

by iclone in

jw
friends

[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><!

[endif][if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>en-ca</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:enableopentypekerning /> <w:dontflipmirrorindents /> <w:overridetablestylehps /> </w:compatibility> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!

[endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"times new roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; mso-fareast-language:en-us;} </style> <!

outsmartthesystem

That is absolutely disgusting. Yet for every witnesses that sees the truth behind such tactics there are 9 that will say "wasn't it encouraging to see a PRE PRINTED pioneer form with your name on it? Such an idea gives me the boost I needed to go ahead and sign up to accomplish Jehovah's work! I am so happified!"

The worst part aboout this is that the numbers (pioneers and publishers) will undoubtedly increase for that month just like they did last year. And just like last year, witnesses will rave about how Jehovah is blessing his work.....I mean.....look at the number of PEAK publishers and PEAK auxillary pioneers! They willingly block from their ability to reason the fact that the reason such numbers look good is because of LOWERED standards.

22

Why Can JWs Eat Turkey On Thanksgiving & Still Say They Aren't Celebrating?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i don't get it.. the idea is that it's ok to eat food on any day as everyday is a day of thanksgiving.

it was the only holiday that i knew witnesses to celebrate.. .

outsmartthesystem

I know my family used to have turkey on Thanksgiving. And I've been know to deep fry one as well. But this past year my wife got mad at me when she learned I was planning to make a turkey. She said "can't you make turkey on any of the other 364 days of the year?" In an effort to not seem petty....I agreed not to make turkey.

Uber Dubs will go out of their way to NOT eat turkey, stuffing, corn, ham or ANYTHING that is or could be related to Thanksgiving. The reasoning? They are keeping separate from the world by making sure to NOT do what the world is doing on that day

11

Connect the Dots in the Awake!?

by euripides in

recently, i saw an issue of despertad!

sitting around in a public place and leafed through it idly.

at the back of it, on the inside page opposite back page, was something like 'family fun' and a connect-the-dots game of joshua, or something like that.

outsmartthesystem

St George.....

Do you have any proof of the Mormons starting this before the witnesses? and if so when? I'd love to show it to my family

11

Connect the Dots in the Awake!?

by euripides in

recently, i saw an issue of despertad!

sitting around in a public place and leafed through it idly.

at the back of it, on the inside page opposite back page, was something like 'family fun' and a connect-the-dots game of joshua, or something like that.

outsmartthesystem

Yes.....but what so many people are forgetting to notice is that the "connect the dots" (while fun for children) is yet another way of indoctrinating them. For years.......when I would go out in "service"......we would pass churches that had playgounds on premises. And everyone (from circuit overseers to elders to pioneers to shmucks) would comment on how "christendom" is trying to attract the "masses" by offering "playtime" instead of taking the time to "learn about Jehovah".

Now.......the society is doing the same thing.....yet 7 mil witnesses will excuse their acceptance of this while still condemning "christendom's" marketing to attract the masses.

32

jwfacts.com

by allyouneedislove in

i had a few comments to make regarding paul grundy's jwfact.com website.

these comments are in no way meant to defend jws, but only to point out illogical statements.

i have actually found his website to be quite informative.. .

outsmartthesystem

TECHNICALLY you may be right. Malawian witnesses were not FORCED to uphold a higher standard than was expected of those in Mexico. No more so than I am "forced" to pay my property taxes. Nob more so than I am "forced" to obey the law about not burning car tires in my front lawn. The point being...Yes....I have the "freedom" to decide not to pay my taxes (at the forced eviction of my home) or the choice not to abide by the law that says I cannot burn tires in my front lawn (at the risk of fine from the county, state, and EPA). But is that really "freedom"?

Yes.....some "may" have been disfellowshipped for purchasing party card. And yes.....Paul's wording could have been better (JW's did not have Zero choice in the matter)...........but what matters is the outcome. Malawian Witnesses had as much choice in the matter as do American citizens when it comes to paying their property taxes. If you "want" to "maintain" a healthy family life (i.e. not be shunned) then as a Malawain.......you need to forsake your logical thinking and go ahead and refuse to purchase such a card

14

I'll have to think about that and get back to you

by donny in

yesterday afternoon i was speaking to my jw neighbor and he managed to get on the topic of "unity" that defines true christianity.

i then said "what if you have some in a church who believes certain days are more holy than others and yet others who think all days are the same?

is that acceptable?".

outsmartthesystem

He may answer the same way I answered that question to a bible study of mine many years ago. I said something like:

"Indeed....certain days may be more important to some Christians than others. For instance....may have elected to have a graduation party when I graduated high school. It was my choice. There is nothing in the bible that supports or condemns such a party. Another person may elect to NOT have a party for himself because having a party creates too much focus and importance on that one individual. And such self focus may bother his conscience. You see? To each his own. He should not criticize me for having a party and I should not criticize him for not having one. The importance here is that we make sure whatever it is we are celebrating is in harmony with God's will. Therefore there must be no pagan origins and it must be something that is approved by Jehovah through his faithful and discreet slave. "

Ugh. I make myself sick

77

1914: Still Important to Watchtower in 2012

by leavingwt in

.

98 years later, the 1914 date is still important to the watchtower organization.. .

below is a screenshot of a portion of page 19 from the may 15, 2012 watchtower magazine.. .

outsmartthesystem

I think DOC is right. They will work to continue to express the significance of 1914 and 607. because without those dates they have nothing. But they will link them together less and less until one day....there is no link whatsoever.....the the believe in the dates INDIVIDUALLY manages to stand on its own. The masses will still all believe whole-heartedly in the significance of those dates but without realizing the importance of linking them together. It will be just like how they unlinked the "generations" from the gentile times teaching.