Bullsh*t
messenger
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5
Printing and No new people at Bethel
by thewiz ini found this out from my brother-in-law, an elder at bethel.. he says that the wtb&ts has hired outside printing compan(y|ies) to print their bound volumes only.. i do recall when i was up in ri, that a brother worked for a printing and binding company that the wtb&ts hired to print the greatest man covers.. also regarding dumping people at bethel -not true, he says.
however, they are not accepting any new people.
for individuals who want to stay they can.
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2
Calgary Blood Issue Continues
by messenger inhttp://www.canada.com/calgary/news/story.asp?id={91fc6ffd-e3fd-493a-9831-ea1fa252431f}.
sick girl must continue with blood transfusions.
scott crowson .
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messenger
. http://www.canada.com/calgary/news/story.asp?id={91FC6FFD-E3FD-493A-9831-EA1FA252431F}
Sick girl must continue with blood transfusions
Scott Crowson
Calgary HeraldFriday, March 29, 2002
ADVERTISEMENT
Alberta Children's Services has ruled that a 16-year-old Calgary girl stricken with leukemia must continue receiving blood transfusions even though it conflicts with her faith.The Jehovah's Witness, who became a ward of the state last month to ensure she would undergo the life-saving procedure, is seeking out-of-province alternatives that don't involve blood transfusions.
The child welfare director said Thursday that the girl will continue to receive the treatment in conjunction with chemotherapy that began last month in Calgary.
"That decision was based on extensive discussions with the medical personnel at Alberta Children's Hospital," said ministry spokesman Mark Kastner. "We're abiding by their recommendation."
The girl, who has now had 12 transfusions, was disappointed with the decision, said her lawyer, David Gnam.
The religious debate over blood transfusions has divided the girl's family. Her mother supports the girl's right to refuse the treatment, while her father does not.
The father was pleased with Thursday's decision, said his lawyer, Bob Calvert.
"The decision is absolutely the right decision," Calvert said.
Last Friday, Gnam made a motion in Court of Queen's Bench seeking permission for the girl to seek alternative treatments. Justice Adele Kent asked Gnam to provide more detailed information on the proposed alternatives, which was done Monday.
Thursday noon was the deadline for a decision from child welfare authorities regarding treatment.
Earlier this week, the girl, who cannot be named because she is in temporary custody of child welfare authorities, told the Herald she was arranging for treatment in California.
Dr. Michael Lill, the director of the bone marrow transplant program at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, had invited the girl to Los Angeles for a treatment program that doesn't involve blood transfusions.
Lill has successfully treated other Jehovah's Witnesses with a process that involves using high-dose chemotherapy and autologous stem cell transplants.
Calvert said local doctors considered and rejected a similar treatment plan when the girl was first diagnosed.
"It's in the realm of experimental treatment as opposed to the treatment that she is on, which is the standard of care," he said.
"It would put her at significant risk of death."
The matter will be back before the courts next week. The girl's lawyer is appealing a February ruling regarding treatment and guardianship.
© Copyright 2002 Calgary Herald
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22
Memorial attendance down?
by TweetieBird inlast night 3 congregations met at the assembly hall for the memorial.
there were just a little over 800 there which really surprised me.
in past years every congregation around here usually had at least 300 in attendance.
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messenger
I believe the attendance will be up this year as a reprucussion of 9-11, many will think, "what the hell if I make it this year maybe Jehovah won't kill me." I believe the more realistic numbers will be next memorial when they have had more time to think about it and the WT has done all the milking the can do on the WTC disaster.
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110
Memorial No Shows...Please Check in....
by ISP inwell, i was tempted but i decided not to go to the most bizarre religious ritual of modern times....how about you?.
isp
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messenger
higher attendance means you are doing well and often that number is given out as verification of the congregations health. Elders often compare to the attendance last year and like to show how things are on the increase. Of course when numbers are down nobody seems to want to talk about it. Often the numbers are padded to give the positive spin. This happens with regular meeting attendance also, the SEC has much leeway when he figures the numbers at the end of the month, you will never see a PO complaining about too high attendance figures.
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19
i went to the memorial
by josephus init was great.. me and my freinds + brother stood at the back with our dffd freind talking, smiling and laughing at the po.. we then went to the pub, and go drunk.. brill.. josephus
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messenger
Memorial talk outlines are basically the same, if you follow the outline it is boring as hell. If the speaker uses a little creativity then they can be entertaining to say the least. Rember the story of the train killing a father's son? A very moving story that has been used at memorials to make the program more real. While some brothers try to breath life into the talk others just read it off and watch the audience die a slow death. To think this is the biggest holiday for all JWs and such a loser way to celebrate it.
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31
NEW UN LETTER-Final nail in WT coffin
by messenger ini received this today from a confirmed source.
i am sure someone will have the actual scans soon.. .
united nations nations unies.
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messenger
I received this today from a confirmed source. I am sure someone will have the actual scans soon.
United Nations Nations Unies
HEADQUARTERS – SIEGE NEW YORK, N Y 1 0 0 1 7
TEL. : 1 (212)963 - 1234 - FAX : 1 (212) 963 - 4879
18 March 2002
Dear Mr. XX,
In reply to your letter dated 19 Februrary 2002, please be informed of the following:
1.The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., an NGO, had been associated with the DPI since 1992 and requested to terminate its association in 2001. the request was granted on 9 October 2001. According to the website www.watchtower.org, the organization is “a legal organization in use by Jehovah’s Witnesses.“
2.The United Nations does not force or “trick“ any NGO to be associated with DPI.
3.The criteria for association for NGOs have not been changed since 1991.We are also attaching a copy of response from our office to inquiries about the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
Sincerely,
Lyutha Al-Mughairy
Chief
Public Liaison Service
Department of Public Informationcc: S. Tharoor
T. Gastaut
P. Hoeffel -
110
Memorial No Shows...Please Check in....
by ISP inwell, i was tempted but i decided not to go to the most bizarre religious ritual of modern times....how about you?.
isp
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messenger
This will make my second memorial to miss, last year I celebrated by partaking of barbaque ribs and cold beer. This year I am having fresh brownies and a cold glass of milk. No, I do not claim to be part of the "heavenly" class nor the "earthly" class, I now have too much class to associate with religious retards.
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104
SHUNNING- Oregonian Article-HUGE!
by messenger inhttp://oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/front_page/101671540232151251.xml.
shunning in spotlight .
wendy y. lawton .
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messenger
. http://oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/front_page/101671540232151251.xml
Shunning in spotlight03/21/02
WENDY Y. LAWTON
Keith Casarona doesn't pretend to know the mind of Robert Bryant. Why anyone wipes out his family with a shotgun on a Saturday night, then points the 12-gauge under his own chin is beyond the comprehension of this soft-spoken Tigard real estate agent.
Yet Casarona knows -- in intimate and anguishing detail -- the pain Bryant felt in his final years. Both men split with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Bryant was expelled three years ago in California. Casarona chose to leave a Beaverton congregation last fall.
The decision gave Casarona peace and fresh possibilities. But the break was devastating. Casarona said he lost his wife of 27 years and friendships that stretched back three decades. About a fourth of his real estate clients vanished.
"Witnesses are good people, and I bless their path," the 52-year-old said. "But when you leave them, you go into a Never Never land."
The killings in McMinnville last month -- the worst mass murder in recent Oregon history -- cast a spotlight on Jehovah's Witnesses and their practice of "disfellowship." In a Christian sect that proudly protects members from the corrupting influence of outsiders, expulsion is the harshest form of discipline.
There is no official motive for the slayings. Police think Bryant was under emotional strain when he shot his wife, four children and himself. That stress, investigators said, included fallout from his shunning.
Now anti-Witness Web sites are abuzz with accusations. "Who in their right mind would ever want to stay in this horrible, horrible, hateful religion?" one posting reads. Witnesses, too, are talking. But they're saying the church is the scapegoat for an unfathomable act.
Leonard Golaboff, a 46-year-old elder in Oregon City, notes that there is no proof that Bryant's ouster from a congregation outside of Sacramento was directly responsible for the murders and suicide. Like all expelled members, Golaboff said, Bryant could have changed his ways and come back.
"This is all just a tragedy, a travesty, a shock," Golaboff said. "What was going on in this man's mind? I am sure there is a lot that we don't know."
What worries Golaboff and other Witnesses is a link between the trigger of Bryant's shotgun and a 132-year-old faith that deplores violence and cherishes family.
Jehovah's Witnesses are a made-in-America church that boasts 6 million international members. They believe in Armaggedon: The world will end, the wicked will die, and God will create a paradise on Earth for the righteous. The name refers to members' watchful return of Jehovah, or God.
The Bible is their bedrock. Witnesses live their lives in strict accordance to its teachings and follow a rigid moral code. Stealing, drinking, smoking, premarital sex -- all are forbidden.
According to another Bible interpretation, members also must keep separate from a world invisibly controlled by Satan.
They're not supposed to vote, join the military or celebrate holidays aside from the commemoration of Christ's death each spring. Close ties with nonmembers, or the "worldly," are discouraged. The reason is reflected in a standard Witness saying: "Bad associations spoil useful habits."
Protecting the congregation's purity is the point of disfellowship. Members are kicked out before they can harm, or continue to harm, others with conduct or beliefs that contradict the Bible.
Sherwood elder Tom Davis said there is a second purpose: Putting a member back on the proper moral path. Davis said disfellowship -- or even the threat of it -- often forces people to make positive changes in their lives.
"This helps someone realize that they've made a mistake and need to change their ways," Davis said. "And we're not talking about little stuff. This discipline comes from violating the stated laws of God."
According to elders, experts and church materials, here is how disfellowship works: To get kicked out, baptized members must display a pattern of "serious un-Christian conduct," such as molestation, adultery, drinking or lying. Promoting teachings that conflict with the Bible also qualifies.
It isn't clear what Robert Bryant's offense was. Neighbors and friends in California said he began to question Bible teachings and found the Shingle Springs, Calif., congregation too controlling. An elder has declined to discuss specifics, saying Bryant had "turned away" from the faith.
Elders said they try to avoid shunning through Bible counseling. And, if repenting members convince leaders they've changed, they can stay. If they don't, elders call a private, judicial-style meeting and expel them.
The shunned still can attend religious services, officials said, and conduct business with members. But Witnesses are instructed not to socialize with someone who is disfellowshipped.
John Crossley, a professor and director of the school of religion at the University of Southern California, said a similar tradition of excommunication is shared by Catholics, Mormons and the Amish. But the practice is fading.
"It is almost impossible to hold up moral doctrine and force people to conform to it anymore," Crossley said. "It is especially difficult to continue a practice that is as severe as disfellowship."
Witnesses point to lives transformed by shunning. People kick drugs, stop gambling, mend marriages. But critics attack the practice as cruel and destructive.
While families aren't required to split up due to disfellowship, critics and even a few church members said that is often the practical result. Computer sites devoted to attacking Jehovah's Witnesses are loaded with stories of divorce and custody battles and estranged siblings -- as well as depression, drug abuse, bankruptcy and suicide.
Daniel Duron used to be among the angry.
After he left the church in 1984 over a disagreement over blood transfusions, the Hillsboro roofer's world turned upside down. Elders came to his door and told him his two boys were "fatherless." His wife and friends and extended family became strangers. Duron was so shaken he planned to kill himself. The gun store, however, was closed.
Soon Duron started fighting. He divorced and won joint custody of his sons. He picketed a local Kingdom Hall. He joined a support group for ex-Witnesses, where he met his second wife. Looking back, the former elder said the biggest impact of his shunning was the sudden loss of certainty.
"Everything you believed in is gone with this tight-knit church family," Duron said. "The way you look at science, spirituality, the after-life -- it's all different. Eventually, that can be very positive. But it's also scary. I wouldn't wish the experience on anyone."
You can reach Wendy Lawton at 503-294-5019 or by e-mail at [email protected].
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Bryant Funeral- WT- QFR
by messenger in*** w70 3/15 191-2 questions from readers ***.
o may dedicated christians attend church funerals of other religious organizations?c.
s., u.s.a.. some christians may feel obligated to attend a church funeral because of a debt of gratitude, because a close relative is involved or due to pressures from an unbelieving mate.
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messenger
*** w70 3/15 191-2 Questions from Readers ***
ó May dedicated Christians attend church funerals of other religious organizations?—C. S., U.S.A.Some Christians may feel obligated to attend a church funeral because of a debt of gratitude, because a close relative is involved or due to pressures from an unbelieving mate. But before doing so each one should consider the various factors involved and the possible alternatives. While doing so is not forbidden by the Christian congregation, such a course is certainly fraught with dangers and problems.
First of all, it is well to remember that a church funeral is not held primarily to afford friends an opportunity to console the bereaved family. Usually that is done in the funeral parlor beforehand or by visiting the family in their home. The church funeral is really a religious service. It therefore is likely to involve a sermon advocating such unscriptural ideas as the immortality of the soul and that all good people go to heaven. It may also involve unscriptural practices such as making the sign of the cross and most likely the joining in united prayer with a priest or minister of another religion. Of course, a Christian could not take part in such, in view of the command at Revelation 18:4.
In this regard Japanese funerals represent a real test for dedicated Christian wives with unbelieving husbands. If they attend the funeral, their name is called out and they are expected to go up and offer incense and a prayer to the dead. So, many of such Japanese Christians have decided that it is better not to attend these funerals.
Some dedicated Christians have attended church funerals because they wanted to stay close to the immediate family and support them. So they went to the funeral parlor, to the church funeral and then even to the grave. They might have been able to do all that without personally committing any false religious act. There are, of course, spiritual hazards in going to any place of false worship.
True, a Christian wife whose husband is an unbeliever and who wants her to attend a church funeral might look to the example of Naaman. He was the Syrian general who was cured of leprosy by bathing himself seven times in the Jordan River at the command of the prophet Elisha. Because of this miraculous cure Naaman was determined never to worship any other god than Jehovah. But that would be a hard thing for him to do because he was still in the service of his king. He helped the king get around and so would have to go with him into the house of the pagan god Rimmon. He might even have to help the king bow down. So he asked that Jehovah God forgive him and not hold this against him. Naaman, who had become a true worshiper of Jehovah, was not himself worshiping this false god; he was only there under orders.—2 Ki. 5:1-19.
And so with the Christian wife who has an unbelieving husband. If her husband insisted that on a certain occasion she go with him to a church funeral of a relative or family friend she might feel that she could act in a way similar to that in which Naaman did—be present on that occasion but not share in any acts of false religion. But whether she went would be up to her to decide. She would have to resolve the conflict between respect for her husband’s wishes and obedience to Jehovah and the dictates of her conscience, trained by God’s Word.—1 Pet. 3:16.
Yes, her conscience would be involved. Why? Because others might see her, one of Jehovah’s witnesses, entering the church, and they might be stumbled. She would therefore have to consider that possibility. As the apostle Paul wrote: “Make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not be stumbling others up to the day of Christ.”—Phil. 1:10.
Better it would be if such a wife tried to explain her position to her husband. She would do well to pick a time when he was relaxed and in a good frame of mind, taking a lesson from Queen Esther, and then tactfully try to explain why she felt she could not attend such a church funeral. Among other things, she could point out that if she attended and did not take part in the ritual it might be very embarrassing to others, and especially to her husband. So an unbelieving husband might agree, out of love for his wife, respect for her religious scruples and a desire to avoid embarrassment.—Esther 5:1-8.
But might one offend the bereaved family by not attending? Only if one ignored the death entirely. One would not need to do that. A person could do things to show that he was sympathetic and interested in helping. He could go to the funeral parlor beforehand, express condolences to the family and offer practical help. A person could bring over food if need be, or cook a meal there for the family, or watch the children, relieving the adults of that responsibility temporarily. Then the family would not think that the person was unloving just because he did not attend the church funeral.
Thus there is no need for a Christian to feel obligated to go to a church funeral of another religious organization, where there may be the temptation to give in to pressure and follow the crowd when everyone else is performing some false religious act. Thus also the danger of performing an act of apostasy and displeasing Jehovah God can be avoided. But each one must decide for oneself on the basis of circumstances and one’s own conscience.
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Church Bells-Door Knocking Hell
by messenger inhttp://www.newsobserver.com/tuesday/news/editorials/story/1105949p-1104635c.html.
point of view .
a church chimes in, on the hour .
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messenger
. http://www.newsobserver.com/tuesday/news/editorials/Story/1105949p-1104635c.html
POINT OF VIEW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------A church chimes in, on the hour
Praying for peace from a disruptive daytime clangor
By NAN MILLERRALEIGH - Prime residential real estate is always described in terms of "convenient" locations and "quiet" neighborhoods. My husband and I lived in just such a neighborhood when suddenly the quiet part was no more. Without warning, a church situated three blocks away installed a device that, after playing the familiar warm-up tune, chimed the hour every hour, every day between 9 a.m. and 6 p.m. Following the noon chiming came a 10-minute recording of hymns, torturously paced and slightly off key -- no joyful noise this.
Borrowing from Poe, I called these bells "brazen bells," or more wickedly "hell's bells," and wished the Founding Fathers had said a little something about separation of church and neighborhood. At first, though, I was confident that my husband's complaint would be one among many; reason would prevail, and the bells would stop. They didn't.
In his response to my husband's letter, the minister was cordial and restrained, as was the church secretary when I flew at her on two separate occasions when the bells rang erratically throughout the morning. Still, we were told in no uncertain terms that we were the only ones in the Ridge Road area not pleased by this noise, and that the bells must go on.
We noticed, however, that on Sunday they were held off till 1 p.m., presumably so as not to jar the nerves of churchgoers or to override the benediction. But this was the church's only admission that these bells are loud -- make that LOUD.
And we were not the only ones dismayed by the prospect of these endless, hourly interruptions. Though we made no formal inquiry, we happened upon a businesswoman who timed her appointments to avoid the noon chiming, a retiree who timed his gardening to avoid the noon chiming, and a mother who timed her baby's naps to avoid the noon chiming. As for us, it meant no more quiet, lunch-hour retreats from the office; no more relaxed oblivion to time on Saturday; no more impromptu napping under the Sunday papers.
We knew of cases where neighbors had campaigned successfully to reroute jets or close noisy bars, but when the intrusive noise emanates from a church, naturally, neighbors feel uneasy about returning fire.
The City of Raleigh told us that within certain hours and under certain decibels, this chiming was lawful, but we could only imagine what would happen if we mounted loudspeakers atop our house and broadcast music in all four directions. We could also imagine the outcome if we made a formal protest against these bells.
The first headline would read, "Right to privacy meets freedom of speech and religion," the second, "Bells win." And in the process I would be branded "the heathen down the block," and no amount of insisting "But I am not a heathen" and "this is not about religion -- this is about noise" would matter.
It was the image of the scarlet H that did it. Disarmed, I gave up and ordered a "white noise" machine that can surmount all but the high notes of the noon-hour recital and is just as portable as my laptop computer.
I renew my efforts now, two and a half years later, because of two recent developments. The first is a Supreme Court case brought by Jehovah's Witnesses in Stratton, Ohio, who have asked that the court reverse a lower court ruling prohibiting their going door to door without a permit. I am pulling for the other side, the so-called "guy in the bathrobe," who would protect his privacy against these intrusions.
Even more pertinent to my cause was a recent article headlined "No, 'no' means 'NO!'" about consumers striking back at telemarketers. Anti-telemarketing activists were described as being "pro-privacy" rather than "anti-business" -- my point exactly, except that I am "pro-privacy," not "anti-church." With the Federal Trade Commission's support and innovations such as "Call Intercept" and "TeleZapper," the anti-telemarketers are winning their battle against mealtime interruptus. The clear message is -- speak out, and maybe, just maybe, someone will support my case against an airborne menace.
Everything else about this church is impressive, especially its progressive stand on political issues. But I am not inspired to new heights of virtue by these bells and, in fact, revel in the occasional, inexplicable, divine remissions in their ringing.
If we should ever decide to sell this property, I do not know how we would promote it. No one wants to live in a formerly quiet neighborhood.
Nan Miller is an assistant professor of English at Meredith College.