Posts by metatron

49

I've been studying.........

by bchapp in

jw
friends

i have been studying with the jw's for several years.

they have been pressuring me to become one of them, but something seems to be holding me back, instinct maybe?

i agree a lot of their teaching are good, and i'm sure are the truth but here are a few of the things that bother me: jw's use the scripture hebrews 10:25 not forsaking the gathering of yourselves together...... to justify their meetings.

metatron

Here's more:

The Society's 'worldly' (influenced by corporations) obsession
with numbers instead of people.

Example: In the opening chapters of Acts, early Christians
rounded off the count of new disciples to THREE PLACES!!
"about five thousand", "about three thousand".
Clearly, the statistics weren't the top priority to them,
it was the people.

Contrast this with the Society's desperate efforts to prop up
numbers with the new 15 minute publishers.

And the field service reports? You can waste hours talking
to no one AND IT COUNTS.

Charity? reading to the blind? visiting the sick?
helping the poor?

I'm sorry, brother, that DOESN'T COUNT!
There's no place on the form for that activity.

This is, in part why the Society had to write so many articles
telling Witnesses to take care of their aged parents and sick
relatives. Of course, it really didn't work because Witnesses
can always escape charity by saying "but I have to go out in
service".

numbers first

metatron

49

I've been studying.........

by bchapp in

jw
friends

i have been studying with the jw's for several years.

they have been pressuring me to become one of them, but something seems to be holding me back, instinct maybe?

i agree a lot of their teaching are good, and i'm sure are the truth but here are a few of the things that bother me: jw's use the scripture hebrews 10:25 not forsaking the gathering of yourselves together...... to justify their meetings.

metatron

Since the Society inserted the name into those quotes
in its version of the New Testament, you really don't have
any proof they used Jehovah.

At any rate, even if true, my general assertion still holds.
They preferred "Heavenly Father" over the name Jehovah.
They generally avoided using it in favor of a more universal
designation.

When Witnesses quote "Our Father,... hallowed be thy name",
they are missing the obvious - Remember that the disciples
asked "teach us to pray". The answer Jesus gave skipped the
name in favor of "Our Father". The same is true for his death,
while addressing God.

This silliness well illustrates typical Watchtower interpretation:
Ignore the simple and obvious - and emphasize the strained
and improbable.

metatron

14

so you want to knock down the wt

by one in

jw
friends

you a right to start a crusade and the right to get a life and still feel free to write and talk as you please specially if the writting and talking is going to help someone.

then a sucker is born and the cycle start all over.. being realistic the usa has been trying to nock down a regime in cuba for half a decade... besides writting and talking against it.

anyway what goes up must come down, but for more than a millenium this law hasn't aplied to some churches, catholic.. why do i care about this anyway?.

metatron

Cuba is a good analogy.

Castro is aging and ailing. Some say he won't last two years.
The country is broke and there is great suspicion that communism
won't out live him in Cuba.

Things do, indeed, fall apart

metatron

This guy should be a Witness

by metatron in

jw
friends

"in syria, lawmaker mamoun homsi has been sentenced to five years.

in prison for "trying to illegally change the nation's constitution.".

a syrian court also gave him a six-month suspended sentence for.

metatron

"In Syria, lawmaker Mamoun Homsi has been sentenced to five years
in prison for "trying to illegally change the nation's constitution."
A Syrian court also gave him a six-month suspended sentence for
"defaming the government through his claims that Syrians lack
freedom." Libertarian Party News May 2002 pg. 6

Maybe he could become a Witness and get disassociated for publically
saying the same about the organization.

metatron

10

Is Collective Resignation Possible?

by metatron in

jw
friends

we all have heard the cliche's about denial and the process.

that it is reputed to begin.. first, a person vigorously denies that something is true.. after some bargaining with god or other improbable attempts.

at escaping fate, the person becomes resigned to the inevitable.

metatron

Interesting.....

But you must consider the 'intensity of pretense' that infests
this religion - especially at the top.

How was it possible for a Greenlees or a Chitty to exist?
And at such high levels for so long?

What these sort of men really think --- and believe ---- and PRACTISE
in private is a mystery and will remain so,

unless, perhaps, things start to fall apart.

If a totalitarian structure suddenly comes apart,
the palace courtiers, who yesterday, were so fawningly loyal,

suddenly decide to push Jezebel out the window.

It can happen, amidst the surprize of the naive.

metatron

49

I've been studying.........

by bchapp in

jw
friends

i have been studying with the jw's for several years.

they have been pressuring me to become one of them, but something seems to be holding me back, instinct maybe?

i agree a lot of their teaching are good, and i'm sure are the truth but here are a few of the things that bother me: jw's use the scripture hebrews 10:25 not forsaking the gathering of yourselves together...... to justify their meetings.

metatron

Begin with the name "Jehovah" or "Yahweh"

Jesus AVOIDED using either name and so did the Apostle Paul!

Jesus keep calling God "our heavenly Father". Everytime he did,
he avoided calling him Jehovah.

Look at the Lord's Prayer - It says "our Father who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name" - he didn't say "Jehovah, hallowed be thy
name".

When Jesus referred to God's name, he wasn't referring to the
name Jehovah. He was referring to God's power, authority or
reputation. In John, Jesus says "I have made your name manifest".
That simply means he made God manifest to his disciples thru
his miracles and teachings - IT DOESN'T MEAN HE TOLD THEM THAT
GOD'S NAME IS JEHOVAH! How do I know? Because they already,
had to know what the name Yahweh/Jehovah was since they were
Jews - with names like Elijah or Jehoshaphat.

At the most important event, his death, Jesus avoided using the
name "Jehovah". He quoted the Psalms where it says "My God,
My God, why have you forsaken me?". He could have quoted any
scripture that DIRECTLY mentioned the name BUT DIDN'T. He also
may have said "Father, forgive them for they know not what they
do."

In the Aid book, it admits that when the Bible refers to God's
name, it often doesn't mean "Jehovah" - as in Ezekiel, when it
says "they shall know my name".

Paul avoided using "Jehovah" or Yahweh because he said "there is
actually to us one God, THE FATHER, and one Lord, Jesus Christ"

There is no solid evidence from any manuscripts that early
Christians used the name "Jehovah" to any great extent. The
Society's claims to the contrary are just speculation and
guesswork - unlikely at that, as you can see from the above
quotations.

Jesus wanted to establish a universal faith, where all people
would simply address God as their Father, not a Jewish tribal
religion.

metatron

10

Is Collective Resignation Possible?

by metatron in

jw
friends

we all have heard the cliche's about denial and the process.

that it is reputed to begin.. first, a person vigorously denies that something is true.. after some bargaining with god or other improbable attempts.

at escaping fate, the person becomes resigned to the inevitable.

metatron

I wish, in fact, I never was!

Keep in mind, that we're discussing a situation that has no
precedent in the past 80 years or so - an organization that loses
its image of invunerability - in ways that will be manifest to
all.

Imagine the CHANGE in arguments away from scriptures and TOWARDS
Witnesses explaining why they're broke - or why congregations
are shutting down - or why everything seems to be falling apart,
theocratically speaking.

Further, I am emphasizing the role of leaders here, not the
easily deceived Joe Average Witness.

If the guys at the top stop believing,
that changes everything.

That will make the Watchtower NO DIFFERENT from ordinary
religions.

metatron

10

Is Collective Resignation Possible?

by metatron in

jw
friends

we all have heard the cliche's about denial and the process.

that it is reputed to begin.. first, a person vigorously denies that something is true.. after some bargaining with god or other improbable attempts.

at escaping fate, the person becomes resigned to the inevitable.

metatron

again, I'm speaking of resignation metaphorically.

In this scenario, they just lose the will to fight.
Disbelief starts becoming open. Apathy sets into the
leadership. The bragging arrogance gives way to a feeling
of "whatever".

metatron

10

Is Collective Resignation Possible?

by metatron in

jw
friends

we all have heard the cliche's about denial and the process.

that it is reputed to begin.. first, a person vigorously denies that something is true.. after some bargaining with god or other improbable attempts.

at escaping fate, the person becomes resigned to the inevitable.

metatron

They'll always be some cash flow, however diminished.

Yet, I think great changes can come about if the Theocratic
commissars collectively look at themselves in the mirror each
morning and say "God, this is bullsh*t!". Not everyone in this
organization can operate as a deceived idiot - that's partly
why they are downsizing and getting into trouble. They still
have stubborn 'true believers' in charge - getting old and
getting irrelevant.

What about the strange way the blood card was handled? They
agree on the wording, print it, and ship it - then cancel it!
Warring factions? Confused committees? Slipping faith by some?

We've already seen what can happen locally when some elders
encounter the internet and then can't go on anymore.

Even if the leadership turned completely cynical and atheistic
in secret, that would bring about great changes.

metatron

10

Is Collective Resignation Possible?

by metatron in

jw
friends

we all have heard the cliche's about denial and the process.

that it is reputed to begin.. first, a person vigorously denies that something is true.. after some bargaining with god or other improbable attempts.

at escaping fate, the person becomes resigned to the inevitable.

metatron

We all have heard the cliche's about denial and the process
that it is reputed to begin.

First, a person vigorously DENIES that something is true.

After some bargaining with God or other improbable attempts
at escaping fate, the person becomes resigned to the inevitable
and accepts it.

Can this same process happen to the Watchtower's leadership,
collectively? In the near future, they may be hit with a never
ending train of sliding statistics, scandals, vacuous literature,
legal pressures, defections, downsizing, mistakes, and decreasing
revenue. Will this exposure of their vunerability finally beat
them down into acceptance of their fading into history?

I think it might - I believe this has happened to other centralized
organizations before - a collective loss of motivation - and feeling
that their 'day' has come - and gone.

This would apply to the leadership, Bethelites, C.O.'s and the like
rather than to the rank and file directly. I assume the average
Witness is far too lacking in critical thinking to catch on.

For them, Armageddon is always tomorrow and the Society is always
right.

metatron