It appears the paper back edition has sold out for now, hopefully there will be more later.
There are plenty of hard cover copies still in stock.
ScenicViewer
JoinedPosts by ScenicViewer
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17
Crisis of Conscience now available at Amazon. Sold by Cynthia Franz.
by ScenicViewer inthis book has been out of print for some time, causing used copies to sell for $100 and more.
the price of these new ones is much more reasonable.. hard cover, $30 here.. soft cover, $26 here.. shipping is free, and ray franz' widow, cynthia, is the seller..
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Can anyone prove that birthday celebrations are forbidden by God?
by FaithfulBrother ini know that there is no mention of any birthday celebrations in the bible besides the two which were celebrated by non-believers.
and it just so happened that on each of these events, someone died (one non-believer and one believer).
but does it mean that just because the bible mentions these two events, that all birthday celebrations are forbidden?
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ScenicViewer
FaithfulBrother asked,
does it mean that just because the Bible mentions these two events, that all birthday celebrations are forbidden?
You make a good point about lots of things, like shaving, having a pagan connection. Almost everything has a pagan connection at some point in history. Just because the 2 b'days in the Bible had a pagan connection is a pretty thin reason to ban all b'day celebrations. After all, it was the murder that was the offensive act in both of those examples, and murder is wrong whether or not it's on someone's birthday. To say that b'days are wrong based on nothing more than those 2 Bible examples is a making a giant leap that is unwarranted.
A few pagan based practices that JWs accept are,
-- Giving flowers at a funeral
-- Wearing wedding rings
-- Feeding cake at a wedding
-- Having a pinjata at a party
-- Wearing pants (Billy the Ex-Bethelite has a funny presentation on this site about pants.)
-- Owning dogs (No positive remarks made about dogs in the Bible)
-- And now, shaving
Interestingly, Watchtower has a double standard when it comes to pagan based observances. In some instances they are condemned, but in other instances they are allowed using this reasoning...
(Awake 9-22-03 p23, 24)
“A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues.”Yet Watchtower turns b'day celebrations into a very big issue, even though they are perfectly acceptable today, and have no meaning other than to commemorate the day of the birth of a child, which is as harmless as observing the day of a wedding anniversary.
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The Surprising Faith Of 8 American Presidents... # 6 is interesting!
by koolaid-man inhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/darrin-grinder/the-presidents-and-their-_b_1283210.html.
6. dwight d. eisenhower.
eisenhower may have been instrumental in bringing "under god" to the pledge of allegiance and making "in god we trust" the national motto, but he was reared in a religious tradition that does not allow its adherents to take oaths of office or to recite the pledge of allegiance--the jehovah's witnesses (a religion/denomination born in the united states, as was mormonism).
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ScenicViewer
Eisenhower became the only president to be baptized and join a church during his presidency--the Presbyterian church in this instance.
Was he previously baptised as a Bible Student? If so, he would be an apostate in Watchtower's eyes because of joining the Presbyterian church, at least by today's Watchtower standards. However the Bible Students were much more lenient in their view of other religious groups. But perhaps he was never baptised into Watchtower to begin with.
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Reform on blood issue?!?!
by Wishididntknow innot sure of the validity of this but i thought i would put out there.... danny hazard seems like a loose cannon...but...your thoughts?.
associated jehovah's witnesses for reform on blood are announcing the beginning of the end of the jehovah's witness blood doctrine.. since 2000 the watchtower society was forced to change their semantics on how they handle punishing its members for taking blood transfusions to save their lives.the european court of human rights negotiated this change when the country of bulgaria refused to acknowledge the watchtower society as a religion, due to the fact that the watchtower punished its members for accepting needed medical procedures to save their own, or their children's lives with blood transfusions.. but ajwrb has been tracking the development of these changes, and we have searched for any actual occurrences of a jw (who wants to stay a jw) getting disassociated for taking a blood transfusion.we have not found a one.
in the past we have not been able to get watchtower service dept.
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ScenicViewer
@ Dogpatch,
Absolutely you can use it. I hope it does some good.
Best Wises with the whole blood issue, and AJWRB.org.
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Reform on blood issue?!?!
by Wishididntknow innot sure of the validity of this but i thought i would put out there.... danny hazard seems like a loose cannon...but...your thoughts?.
associated jehovah's witnesses for reform on blood are announcing the beginning of the end of the jehovah's witness blood doctrine.. since 2000 the watchtower society was forced to change their semantics on how they handle punishing its members for taking blood transfusions to save their lives.the european court of human rights negotiated this change when the country of bulgaria refused to acknowledge the watchtower society as a religion, due to the fact that the watchtower punished its members for accepting needed medical procedures to save their own, or their children's lives with blood transfusions.. but ajwrb has been tracking the development of these changes, and we have searched for any actual occurrences of a jw (who wants to stay a jw) getting disassociated for taking a blood transfusion.we have not found a one.
in the past we have not been able to get watchtower service dept.
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ScenicViewer
No Room For George said,
"I can't help but think that the WT would leave itself open to lawsuits."
Yes they would, but consider this...
Who would sue if the ban on blood was lifted? Wouldn't it be relatives of someone who died because they refused blood? If the ban on blood was lifted quickly survivors of the deceased would say, 'You mean our mother/father/son/daughger didn't have to die after all? He/she followed your policy and lost his life thinking it was the truth, and now you have taken it back? We are taking action against you for loss of life!' No doubt when attorneys figured out how to win such cases the law suits would fly against Watchtower.
How to avoid such suits? Wait until all those who could possibly bring suit have passed on. But that will take decades, so what does Watchtower do in the meantime? Keep the blood policy on the books, but do not DF or DA for it.
As Refriedtruth said, the Sociey can mealy mouth it's way through this, providing plenty of loopholes, giving counsel privately that isn't in print, so that no one has to die because of not receiving blood in the coming years. Then, decades down the road when the coast is clear - meaning there is no longer a threat of suits from survivors - quietly drop the whole matter. Maybe the Society will even claim it had been a conscience matter all along and that 'some back in those days misunderstood' (that's certainly a method that Watchtower has used before).
This would be a long process, but it seems the Society's blood policy is in a state of transition now, and has been since major changes took place in 2000.
These are only my thoughts, but a scenario like this would provide a way out from under the organization's horrible blood policy eventually, and avoid most of the law suits.
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Crisis of Conscience now available at Amazon. Sold by Cynthia Franz.
by ScenicViewer inthis book has been out of print for some time, causing used copies to sell for $100 and more.
the price of these new ones is much more reasonable.. hard cover, $30 here.. soft cover, $26 here.. shipping is free, and ray franz' widow, cynthia, is the seller..
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ScenicViewer
Some may prefer a PDF download version of Crisis of Conscience.
It's available here for $7.95. This is the Commentary Press site, which was Ray's site, and I believe Cynthia will benefit from purchases made here.
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Crisis of Conscience now available at Amazon. Sold by Cynthia Franz.
by ScenicViewer inthis book has been out of print for some time, causing used copies to sell for $100 and more.
the price of these new ones is much more reasonable.. hard cover, $30 here.. soft cover, $26 here.. shipping is free, and ray franz' widow, cynthia, is the seller..
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Bloodplates... Can it Really be Justified?
by mrbunyrabit ini was thinking about something.. getting a blood transfution.. thats wrong right?
oky and theres allot of scriptures supporting that.. so is giving blood at a bloodbank allowed for witnesses?
no, its not allowed.... oky so heres my question.... witnesses are allowed to use blood plates... where does those blood plates come from?.
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ScenicViewer
Cirkeline said,
"They have to make blood transfutions legal veeery slow and over a long time to prevent too many legal cases."
I believe you are right about that. The Society seems to be in a state of transition over the blood issue. It's already ok to take many blood components that were banned in the past, and in 60 or 70 years the whole blood issue will likely be dead, just like the ban on vaccination. Stemming the flow of lawsuits is probably the reason for taking small, incremental steps forward.
Watchtower has been so clever at controling information that most Witnesses are not aware of the Society's past views on medical issues. These days though, with the proliferation of the internet and electronic media, making information readily available, the organization will have a much tougher time controlling what people know. The Society's ban on blood transfusion will not be forgotten as easily as other issues from the past.
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Exciting experience about Amish couple joining JWs - and the shunning begins!
by Bonnie_Clyde inmy daughter is also on her email list.
i believe my daughter has informed her that i dont go to meetings any more, and i think my friend is trying to encourage me.
however, my daughter has shunned me, my husband and her two brothers for almost five years even though none of us are dfd.
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ScenicViewer
"He [Allen, the Amish man] was always frustrated by the lack of spiritual food they received mostly it was all about traditions very much like the Jews."
Allen and Mary can't see it yet - but one day they likely will - JWs are more like the Jews with all their traditions than almost any religion on earth. They have gone from the frying pan into the fire. Hopefully they will both see what they've done very soon.
As to the shunning, they will soon find out that JWs are similar to the Amish. Even though Witnesses make this statement in the literature...
(Awake 7-09 p29)
“No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.”...Allen and Mary will learn that JWs practice just the opposite.
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Rick Fearon should apologise for accusing faders of being cowards
by cedars ini hate doing this type of thread.
none of us are perfect, least of all myself, and i would rather focus any criticism on the watch tower society for damaging people's lives.
however, in the short period since i've been a member of this forum i've noticed one member in particular deteriorate in his behaviour into the type of individual who threatens to undermine the credibility of the entire website.
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ScenicViewer
That's a good question, Who were you referring to Koolaid-man? Who is the internet radio personality that is jealous of you?