Posts by ScenicViewer

But if you are looking for a specific number you will need to consult Watchtower and ask for the list, the database of child molesters they compiled years ago. They have been court ordered to produce it and they have refused to.

Watchtower would know which ones on the list are elders, and which ones were convicted in court as opposed to the ones that the authorities were never notified about because they were either handled 'in house' by Watchtower's judicial committee process or the authorities were never notified because of the way the Organization applies the two witness rule.

Maybe they will give it to you, just explain that you are Fisherman and that you have been asking, but I doubt it. Watchtower is determined to keep is secret.

87

California Elder Arrested

by James Jack in

crime.

daniel macias said.. investigators learned that ramos was an elder at a jehovah’s witnesses church in the 4000 block of west mckinley avenue.

there, he met a teen girl and her family three years ago.. .

ScenicViewer

Strange double post for some reason?

87

California Elder Arrested

by James Jack in

crime.

daniel macias said.. investigators learned that ramos was an elder at a jehovah’s witnesses church in the 4000 block of west mckinley avenue.

there, he met a teen girl and her family three years ago.. .

ScenicViewer

it'd be a breath of fresh air if an elder got arrested for something else.

It certainly would.

It would also be a breath of fresh air if one of them received a trial verdict of not guilty! I guess it could happen, and maybe somewhere it has, but WAY too many are found guilty.

12

Ireland: A Failure To Bear Witness?

by darkspilver in

feature article in today's print edition (sunday, october 29, 2017) of the irish sunday business post newspaper along with small article on the front page.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_sunday_business_post.

jehovah’s witnesses in spotlight over their response to abuse cases.

the sunday business post, sunday, october 29, 2017 - front page of print edition.

ScenicViewer

That is a great article. It touches all the bases regarding the child abuse issues of Watchtower, from how Watchtower handles cases in Ireland, to the Royal Commission in Australia, to the Charity Commission in Britain, to work done by the Center for Investigative Reporting, to law suits in the United states. It's very thorough.

And notice how Watchtower's actions parallel the Catholic Churches...

Also present was Professor Geoffrey Shannon, Ireland’s Special Rapporteur on Child Protection, who gave a talk on the parallels between the Jehovah’s Witnesses handling of child sexual abuse allegations and that of the Catholic Church.

Shannon told the Sunday Business Post that, during his talk, he explained to the audience how in both the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Catholic Church, “the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the good name of the church and the assets of the church all took precedence over protecting vulnerable children”.

87

California Elder Arrested

by James Jack in

crime.

daniel macias said.. investigators learned that ramos was an elder at a jehovah’s witnesses church in the 4000 block of west mckinley avenue.

there, he met a teen girl and her family three years ago.. .

ScenicViewer

Fisherman: Everyone accused of committing a crime should be heard with all fairness.

Absolutely. Do you honestly believe that people here disagree with that concept and that you are the only one that gets it?

The Related JW elder is a defendant like the detectives in my post. That is my point. Got it?

The detectives are only defendants, as is the JW elder that was arrested, that is your point? Really? That's it? Well, okie dokie then, thanks for explaining it. It sure took you long enough to come up with that, I was hoping for something with more substance.

87

California Elder Arrested

by James Jack in

crime.

daniel macias said.. investigators learned that ramos was an elder at a jehovah’s witnesses church in the 4000 block of west mckinley avenue.

there, he met a teen girl and her family three years ago.. .

ScenicViewer

Fisherman: Well, I stated that the JW elder should be heard in all fairness.

So did everyone else. At least I can't find where anyone here convicted him before he had a trial.

What you said was "...someone could construe that he is convicting the man before a fair trial." That is exactly what you did, you construed it that way, and you said it as if Flipper in fact had the JW elder convicted without a trial. But now you seem to be backing down from it by saying it could be 'construed that way.' Am I misunderstanding you, are you really not backing down from your incorrect information about Flipper's post?

He is the author of his post and he is responsible for what he wrote and so are you.

And neither he nor I wrote anything improper regarding the JW elder. You know that.

All I said is that he did not explain what he meant in his post about the JW elder.

Then why were you so quick-on-the-draw to make negative assumptions about his post? Shouldn't you have waited for an explanation from him [Flipper]? You know he never shys away from explaining himself, and you know he will be back.

Oh yes, weren't you going to copy and paste the explanation of why you posted the 2 detectives article?

87

California Elder Arrested

by James Jack in

crime.

daniel macias said.. investigators learned that ramos was an elder at a jehovah’s witnesses church in the 4000 block of west mckinley avenue.

there, he met a teen girl and her family three years ago.. .

ScenicViewer

Fisherman: Says you now after I explained the purpose of my link...

Hmm, I'm trying to find where you explained the purpose of your link. Could you point me to the post? A copy and paste would be fine.

...someone could construe that he [Flipper] is convicting the man before a fair trial.

Not really, not if it is actually read without an ulterior motive of finding fault. But thank you for acknoweledging that you misconstrued what was really said.

87

California Elder Arrested

by James Jack in

crime.

daniel macias said.. investigators learned that ramos was an elder at a jehovah’s witnesses church in the 4000 block of west mckinley avenue.

there, he met a teen girl and her family three years ago.. .

ScenicViewer

WT Society needs to be brought down big time.

Yes, it does, but not because of the JW elder that hasn't been tried yet. I can't find where anyone said that.

87

California Elder Arrested

by James Jack in

crime.

daniel macias said.. investigators learned that ramos was an elder at a jehovah’s witnesses church in the 4000 block of west mckinley avenue.

there, he met a teen girl and her family three years ago.. .

ScenicViewer

Well, another of your tactics is to mix concepts to arrive at a false conclusion.

In Flipper's post it says:

- The police received an anonymous tip [about the JW elder]

- The police arrested him

- And this important point, "Now we'll watch the scene unfold in the courtroom..." Flipper is not condemning the JW elder as being guilty before the trial.

- You have twisted the remark about being 'guilty' as well. Flipper was expressing what JWs were likely to say, and he is right, JWs often claim that their own can't have done the crime. Not only that, he is actually saying that Witness would say he is not guilty. Read it Fisherman. He was saying that JWs would say he is not guilty, because he couldn't have done it, he is an elder!

Not that Flipper can't reply on his own, he is onto you as much, probably more, than most.

I don't remember anyone here saying the JW elder was guilty, only that he was arrested and charged.

You know that, but you repeatedly misapply and twist words to suit an ulterior motive, which is to confuse an issue as if that somehow defends your religion.

And in all of this you still haven't answered the original question, Why did you link the story about the two detectives? What do they have to do with the arrested JW elder? Nothing as far as you have explained. You did it only to soften the impact of a JW elder being arrested as far as I can tell, but if that isn't it you are certainly still welcome to answer it if you can find time to work it in.