Posts by Sulla

211

New light Watchtower magazine leaked from organization weeks ahead of general release

by cedars in

http://jwsurvey.org/governing-body-2/new-light-watchtower-magazine-leaked-from-organization-weeks-ahead-of-general-release.

if doctrinal explanations are missing from the article, it is because they are also missing from the magazine.. i would like to give my thanks again to my source for supplying me with the magazine article weeks ahead of its scheduled release.

it showed remarkable courage, because risks were taken.

Sulla

Cedars, I appreciate your observation that:

The tumultuous period in the organization’s history between 1914 and 1919 thus becomes the focus of doctrine perhaps more than ever before. There is no longer a “seamless” transition from the time of the apostles through to today. Prior to 1914, there was NO “organized channel” on the Earth. By 1919, one had been suddenly and miraculously formed – by none other than Christ himself.

This is apt. And it explains why 1914 is thatthing JWs believe. It is the central doctrine, without which they cannot exist. Christians think Christians are all about the death and resurrection of Christ. JWs think Christians are all about 1914.

1914 is their Trinity doctrine: it cannot ever be changed.

25

Why a day behind Passover? Weren't the apostles celebrating Passover?

by wha happened? in

i don't get the day differeance.

what's the obscure referance the wt uses to set the memorial a day late?.

Sulla

The WTS is following the lead of the quartodecimans (“fourteenthers”) of the fourth century who held the Lord’s Evening Meal on 14 Nisan.

Almost, Quendi. The 14th-ers controversy actually has its roots in the disagreement between the synoptic gospels and the churches that followed St. John's gospel -- mostly in Asia-minor. The synoptics seem to insist that the Last Supper was a Passover meal and was, thus, celebrated on Nisan 15. The churches following the gospel of John would, of course, insist that Christ was killed at the same time that the Passover lambs were being slaughtered -- the afternoon immediately prior to Passover: Nisan 14.

For these churches, the Last Supper was not a Passover meal; Jesus was himself the Passover. So, different dates. An echo of this can be found in the Orthodox practice of celebrating Mass with leavened bread, as opposed to the Catholic practice of using unleavened bread. The Orthodox are pretty sure that the Gospel of John is correct. I happen to agree with them, as it happens.

So, proving the adage about blind squirrels, the JWs -- who are illiterate and think the Passover is on Nisan 14 -- actually manage to get the timing of the Last Supper correct.

24

Notes from 2013 Memorial talk: Appreciate What Christ Has Done for You

by WinstonSmith in

took one for the team tonight, and went along to the memorial.

my first time in a kingdom hall for just over a month.

it was as expected, dry, boring and extremely uninteresting.

Sulla

This is not recognizably Christian.

97

First mention of "new light" may appear in July 15, 2013 Watchtower

by cedars in

a trusted source informs me that the "new light" about the faithful slave is to make its first printed appearance in the july 15th watchtower, which should be available for download online three weeks from now, on around april 15th.. i'm led to believe that the references to the new understanding are made in such a manner as to suggest the "new light" isn't that new at all, which suggests to me that little or no effort is being made to explain the doctrinal connotations.

my source and i are hoping to get a key paragraph posted at the earliest opportunity.

watch this space!.

Sulla

I doubt this will be a big deal. Yeah, it's a power grab; but the GB already had the power already. This just makes it official. Doctrinally, it doesn't seem that tough to me -- 1918 simply becomes the re-institution of the Church. JWs have always known that the apostolic nature of the JWs -- the idea of an unbroken thread going all the way back -- was not true. Now, they are simply saying that all them people way back in the day who wre the "real" church never had any official authority. Which, nobody cares, since a) we aren't living 1,000 years ago and b) nobody could have identified the "real" authority in those days, anyhow.

I see it as a push. Meaningless.

34

The Church's Biggest Lie

by ProdigalSon in

think you've sorted out the mess that christianity has become?.

ever wonder why the other 2/3 of the planet doesn't believe the utter nonsense of "resurrection"??.

chew on this, christians:.

Sulla

Yes, of course the earliest Christians were Pythagoreans who only gradually -- after adoption as the state religion of Rome -- adopted the Jewish belief in the resurrection of the body. That's not nakedly absurd at all.

19

Was Judas present for the passing of the emblems?

by Lore in

memorial is this tuesday.

while explaining the significance of consuming the booze and bread it is quite likely the speaker is going to make a passing remark about how jesus made sure that judas would not be present to partake.. of course he won't explain his reason for saying that.

but here is some food for thought while you're stuck sitting there listening to it:.

Sulla

First, they aren't "emblems," in the gospel accounts. That's JW-talk.

But your reading is correct: there isn't any reason to think Judas left ahead of the meal. I suspect the JWs assert he did leave for the simple reason that their ecclesiology works on something like the supposed perfection / superiority of the "True Christians." 1918 is supposed to be something like a re-selection of apostles, or a re-institution of the Church -- the fact of which is placed in considerable tension if it turns out that Jesus made a Christian of Judas.

As a general rule, assuming that JW interpretations are designed to support their own self-image as superior to everybody else is a pretty good first guess.

14

I don't get it... (re: Memorial)

by ilikecheese in

why do jws celebrate jesus dying rather than his resurrection?

i was talking to my boyfriend about this last week, and he said, "it's way more important that he died.

" i kind of thought the whole coming back to life thing was a bigger deal, but whatevs.. .

Sulla

transhuman is correct, I think. They figure his death matters, but his resurrection is incidental to the whole thing. In this, as in so much else, they are teaching something more nearly the opposite of the gospel.

rattigan has neatly missed the point: from the very earliest days, the Lord's Day was the Sunday communal feast. It is an indisyncratic and historically absurd idea that leads one to suppose that the mandate to celebrate the Eucharist was designed as a replacement of the Passover only and, thus, only to be done one time each year.

40

South African cardinal suggests child abuse is illness not crime

by besty in

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/16/us-safrica-cardinal-idusbre92f09a20130316.

johannesburg | sat mar 16, 2013 11:54am edt.

(reuters) - a south african cardinal who helped elect pope francis this week has told the bbc pedophilia is an illness and not a crime.. cardinal wilfrid fox napier, the catholic archbishop of durban, told bbc radio 5 on saturday that pedophilia was a "disorder" that needed to be treated.. "from my experience, pedophilia is actually an illness.

Sulla

Yes, designs, thank you for your blazingly obvious observation. Really, one ought to call the cops in cases of sexual abuse? Who had any idea of such a thing? It was wrong of bishops not to do so, tolerating as they did the "filth" (Benedict XVI's term) of abusive priests?

Without you here to pound the table, how would anyone have known all this? You've done a great service by speaking of nothing else, regardless of the thread topic. Indeed, the idea that one adult in a position of power (Cardinal O'Brien) making a pass at another adult (a seminarian) is now, in your mind, a criminal act would surely be news to all the companies in the US, who are all stupidly working under the opinion that such things are internal matters.

But that just makes my point, as if it needed making again: you are un-hinged and blinded by bigotry and hatred for the Church.

40

South African cardinal suggests child abuse is illness not crime

by besty in

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/16/us-safrica-cardinal-idusbre92f09a20130316.

johannesburg | sat mar 16, 2013 11:54am edt.

(reuters) - a south african cardinal who helped elect pope francis this week has told the bbc pedophilia is an illness and not a crime.. cardinal wilfrid fox napier, the catholic archbishop of durban, told bbc radio 5 on saturday that pedophilia was a "disorder" that needed to be treated.. "from my experience, pedophilia is actually an illness.

Sulla

Address the issue of these Prelates not contacting the police and you may find the real issue. These Cardinals actions of shifting child molesters around so that more people were harmed!

Oh, designs! You are such a tool! Look, when you reach a point where even the true, factual statements of the other side send you into a rage, it's time to step back. And, to the point of this thread -- which you disregard to hunt your white whale -- is centered around the statement that pedophillia is a disease. Which, as it happens, it is.

But you simply can't admit that. Don't you think that's funny?

303

New Pope about to come out

by new22day in

maybe she'll be really progessive..

Sulla

Why should I care what the Church takes a dim view on?

Apparently, people here care a great deal about it, EP. That the Church takes a dim view of gay marriage, for example, seems to be something of keen interest. Perhaps you missed that subtlety on this thread.

Seriously, its like arguing with children, here.

Marriage is a legal contract between two adults. NO religion has no right to stick their beaks in and dictate who can and can't make that contract. It is none of their business.

Just two adults, stillthinking? How provincial of you. Perhaps you know nothing of the cultures that engage in polyamory or the ancient practices of the Spartans or current practices of the Pashtun. Stop being such a narrow-minded bigot.