Posts by Sulla

posted

27
You Won't be Resurrected.
by smmcroberts in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
i'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but if you die prior to armageddon you won't be resurrected.

please read my latest blog article to find out why this is so according to the watchtower beliefs.. http://smmcroberts.net/blog/you-wont-be-resurrected/.
Sulla

The JWs generally teach the idea that you are your data. They dont like it, of course, when pressed because of exactly the problems outliend in the OP. Identity is generally thought to rely in some way on uniqueness or numerical distinction and, obviously, we can put my data into any number of places.
The great advantage is that it allows the JW idea that people can be raised as either human or else non-human. The cost is merely in the absurdity of identifying the person with his data. JWs would be far better off simply being substance dualists, identifying the person with an immaterial soul -- then it wouldn't matter if you were a human or a spirit. But JWs hate anything that smacks of philosophy, especially if it's Greek.
36
Jason BeDuhn regarding Revelation 7 and the Great Crowd
by Sauerkraut in
1. watchtower
2. bible
a while ago i sent an e-mail to jason beduhn, that the society is quite fond of.

they like to quote him in publications.

so when i started researching the great crowd and the accuracy of the earthly hope doctrine i thought i might write him and ask him what the exact meaning of "before the throne" (revelation 7:9) and "temple" (7:15) is.
Sulla

Well, the idea that the NWT incorrectly (according to BeDuhn) puts "Jehovah" into the NT because they wish to advance their Arian theology (according to everybody) would seem to pretty well disqualify the whole project. I can't see how anyone can take the NWT seriously, given this naked absurdity.
36
Jason BeDuhn regarding Revelation 7 and the Great Crowd
by Sauerkraut in
1. watchtower
2. bible
a while ago i sent an e-mail to jason beduhn, that the society is quite fond of.

they like to quote him in publications.

so when i started researching the great crowd and the accuracy of the earthly hope doctrine i thought i might write him and ask him what the exact meaning of "before the throne" (revelation 7:9) and "temple" (7:15) is.
Sulla

BeDuhn is, like, the JW theology go-to guy. I know of several JWs who have sent e-mails to him regarding questions like this and he quite often responds. Interesting that he would do that for various strangers -- most of whom have some sort of religious axe to grind.
His book, claiming the the NWT is somehow the least biased of a whole set of major translations, might as well have been written by an evil clown on meth then on stilts, of course. But he seems like a decent fellow.
20
Was it all for nothing ? We can't we start over again ?
by raymond frantz in
1. jw
2. friends
i know 99% of the posts here are for exposing wt doctrines and fallacies ,but there was a time that we really believed that we had full bible understanting .i know now that this is the case ,but why can't we use that as a starting point rather than the end of the road ?

why can't we be more like the jews of john the baptist's day that acknoledged their errors and started over again by whiping the slater clean and getting baptised in expectation of the messiah's coming ?.
Sulla

Why bother with learning details of various permutations of theology, once you realize that the source upon which ALL Abrahamic theologies are based is false?
I find it remarkable to think that a falling out with the bullshit JW religion can be spun up to indict both Judiasm and Christianity. Not sure why that's not obviously weird to you. It's like, "Yeah, dude I had this real bad experience with this meth whore, so now I realize all women are really bitches."

Ah, the irony of rejecting them for small differences in theology, when the commonality is tainted peanut butter.
Ah, the irony of thinking these are small differences. That is a pretty clear signal that you haven't done what I complained too many xJWs don't do. Now that's ironic.
20
Was it all for nothing ? We can't we start over again ?
by raymond frantz in
1. jw
2. friends
i know 99% of the posts here are for exposing wt doctrines and fallacies ,but there was a time that we really believed that we had full bible understanting .i know now that this is the case ,but why can't we use that as a starting point rather than the end of the road ?

why can't we be more like the jews of john the baptist's day that acknoledged their errors and started over again by whiping the slater clean and getting baptised in expectation of the messiah's coming ?.
Sulla
Yes, Black Sheep. But what are those things you thought you knew? Along with the idea that JWs are the chosen of God, would't a partial list include other things you thought you knew? Things like
- Jesus was not resurected
- Jesus is not God
- The bible is an instruction book
- The death of Jesus simply proved a point about obedience
- Christian worship is not properly liturgical
- etc
Some people here seem to have done something like a proper analysis of what happened to their belief system; some have then come to the conclusion that atheism is corect after this serious amount of thought. It also seems that others have simply jumped to a cynical atheism as a reaction. For these, it seems that the JWs constant insistence that there is nowhere else to go outside of the JWs seems to have been ultimately correct.
I beat this theme to death, I guess. But it is still surprising how many people -- whose lives were defined for years by JW-ism -- never bothered to understand any of the key teachings of orthodox Christianity, when those teachings were what they had spent years attacking as JWs.
The JWs are wrong in what they affirm, but also wrong in what they deny.
20
Was it all for nothing ? We can't we start over again ?
by raymond frantz in
1. jw
2. friends
i know 99% of the posts here are for exposing wt doctrines and fallacies ,but there was a time that we really believed that we had full bible understanting .i know now that this is the case ,but why can't we use that as a starting point rather than the end of the road ?

why can't we be more like the jews of john the baptist's day that acknoledged their errors and started over again by whiping the slater clean and getting baptised in expectation of the messiah's coming ?.
Sulla
At the risk of becoming a bore on this question (yes, I know: too late), raymond frantz, the reason is because JW-ism is closer to atheism than it is to Christianity. Just look at the core claims of Christianity that are rejected by JWs:
- Divinity of Christ
- Bodily resurrection of Jesus
- Bodily resurrection at the end of the age
- Non-material and rational soul
- Concept of original sin
etc.
The JWs are great deniers of Christian claims. As such, it isn't surprising (to me) that people who leave the JWs wind up without religious affiliation in disproportionate numbers. People who get tired of their minivan probably tend to switch to another minivan. Maybe an SUV. Why? 'Cause the minivan is the right fit for them, even if that particular make or model doesn't work any longer. A Miata: probably not a high-likelihood choice.
So, the process works something like this: having accepted the claims that nearly every orthodox Christian claim is false, as JWs, but that the JWs have special insight into the timing of the End of Days, people find themselves no longer believing that last claim. But rejecting the idea that JWs have the timing of the End all sorted out doesn't suggest that anyone would (or should, maybe) go back and accept all those other claims that were rejected earlier.
85
I was HAPPY as a JW, how did I get here?
by MC RubberMallet in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
some have figured out, but i am a poster that previously used another name.

but even then i did not give many details about myself.

i barely cracked 100 posts.. but i have never done a thread to explain why i am here.
Sulla
- It's good to read a thread that emphasizes the reality of many ex-witnesses: They were happy as witnesses. Unlike many, many others, their lives in the organization were fulfilling. Their stories are just as valid as those who were unhappy and unfulfilled as witnesses. I have long believed that untold numbers of JWs are well-adjusted individuals who do not lead lives of quiet desperation.
  And yet, happiness - or its opposite - are hardly reliable barometers of a religion's goodness or otherwise.
  People can lead lives of bliss in miserable surroundings and the opposite is also true: People can present as pictures of perfect happiness in the most depressing of environments. This speaks to both human vulnerability and its opposite, resilience.
  I do look forward to the second part of this post because it has the potential to offer insights and observations not often aired about factors besides "happiness" that influence people's continued affiliation with their religion.
It is intetesting, Steve2. There are plenty of places in this country where joining the JWs actually delivers desperately needed stability and structure. The comment about ways out of the neighborhood being the NBA or rap is apt, I suspect. Even a rigid and judgmental morality can deliver benefits when the alternative is something like chaos.
82
Our friend PUTERNUT has died
by Nathan Natas in
1. jw
2. friends
.

thanks princess for helping us remember ari's screen name.. the "sad news from maui" thread is here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/107021/1.ashx
Sulla

Could someone explain Nathan Natas' behavior in this case in comparison with the more recent suicide? Someone like Nathan Natas, say?
18
The Disfellowshipping Arrangement, New Book, Hope It Helps
by graysome67 in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
hello, i renounced my belief/faith in the watchtower society a few years ago, though i am still a bible believer.

since departing from them, i have studied the bible aptly to try to understand it's true teachings.

i decided to start publishing essays in the hope that my research may help enlighten other disillusioned jw's by seeing alternative viewpoints, or at least pointing them in a direction that would help unlock their minds when studying the bible.
Sulla

JWs shoot their wounded. This girl, clearly is wounded: so shoot her. The guy is not wounded; he is a bastard. No need to shoot him.
5
For those that can remember, when Billy Idol's Rebel Yell came on, did clubs/parties go bananas?
by Theocratic Sedition in
1. jw
2. friends
it's 2012 and that song still bangs to me, but i was kid when it was originally released.

those of you who were young back then(no offense), was that song guranteed to inject adrenaline into a party or a club?.
Sulla

Of course he is decent and intelligent. Don't you remember the scene from "Wedding Singer" when Adam Sandler explains his problem? "Billy Idol gets it, why doesn't she get it?" Clearly a subtle grasp of human nature.