the intent of this topic is to centralize some interesting facts from the 2013 yb of jw.
i am analyzing the data in various ways and will publish as i go along:.
p4: "happily, jehovah does not force us to serve him.
The cult allowed them to study the Bible with the understanding that the Witnesses would not force them to leave the cult.
So, if you are in a religion that allows you to freely study the bible with people of another religion that's a cult.
But if you're in a religion where you will be excommunicated and shunned for studying the bible with someone of a different religion that's NOT a cult?
Uh, ok.
as with most doctrines, the belief that the bible condemns homosexuality is multi-layered and allegedly supported by several scriptures.
when he raised his eyes he got to see the man, the traveler, in the public square of the city.
let me bring them out, please, and you rape them and do to them what is good in your eyes.
irondork, as a Christian I want to thank you for the information you've posted. I will be spending some time reading and thinking on it.
i was curious to hear what other believers understand about dinosaurs.
i know we have a few young earth creationists here.
i wondered what you understand about dinosaurs and when they existed, as well as hear from those that believe dinosaurs lived millions of years ago and how it fits into the bible..
By your own admission you are a creationist, so I didn't expect you to be open to rational discussion.
Your scathing wit has cut me so deeply I may never recover. That's it. I'm an atheist now!
i was curious to hear what other believers understand about dinosaurs.
i know we have a few young earth creationists here.
i wondered what you understand about dinosaurs and when they existed, as well as hear from those that believe dinosaurs lived millions of years ago and how it fits into the bible..
Its safer that way - information that contradicts our treasured beliefs can be bloody irritating.
If you don't believe then you don't believe. Why would I waste my time trying to convince you? The world doesn't revolve around you, ya know.
i was curious to hear what other believers understand about dinosaurs.
i know we have a few young earth creationists here.
i wondered what you understand about dinosaurs and when they existed, as well as hear from those that believe dinosaurs lived millions of years ago and how it fits into the bible..
I was curious to hear what other believers understand about dinosaurs. I know we have a few young earth creationists here. I wondered what you understand about dinosaurs and when they existed, as well as hear from those that believe dinosaurs lived millions of years ago and how it fits into the bible.
I am a creationist and I know God exists. I'm just stating that up front to let you know that I won't waste my time arguing with atheists. I won't beg them to not throw their lives away.
The earths is approximately four and a half billion years old.
Dinosaurs lived, and ultimately died out approximately 65 million years ago.
The flood of Noah's day did not kill the dinosaurs as there were no dinosaurs alive at that time to be killed. The flood of Noah's day was also not a global event as many churches teach out of tradition, and the bible does NOT claim that the flood was a global event. If you think it does then you are a victim of translation bias.
how could it be reasonable for jesus to condemn skeptics today when one of his own apostles, who had witnessed jesus pre-death miracles, refused to believe in the resurrection until he had physical proof?.
doesn't the fact that jesus willingly gave thomas the requested proof set a precedent for all other skeptics down through time?
isn't the burden of proof on jesus to provide indisputable evidence that he is now alive given that so much time has passed since his claimed resurrection, and until he does that, it would be immoral for jesus to judge anyone?.
John 20
1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!”
3 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. 8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.) 10 Then the disciples went back to where they were staying.
{sniip}
24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus [ a ] ), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31 But these are written that you may believe [ b ] that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
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Notice verse 2....they took the Lord's body and we don't know what they did with him.
Verse 9...they still didn't fully understand the sacrifice and resurrection.
It's important to remember we have the written gospel accounts to reflect on and get a clearer picture. Those living at that time didn't have this advantage of being able to sit back and try to see the whole picture. How many times did Jesus have to repeatedly tell his associates that he would be killed? They had trouble based on their own expectations of what the Messiah was going to be like.
I don't see anything that gives me the idea that Thomas didn't believe Jesus was the Son of God or that God has the power to raise from the dead. Given verse 2 (and that we know others wanted the body of Jesus guarded due to the fear that people would steal it away to make it look like he wasn't dead), I find it more likely that Thomas wanted to make sure it really was Jesus and not someone attempting to impersonate him for self glorification.
a new article for those who are interested.... http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/patterson-on-the-line-watchtower-claims-that-paying-cash-bond-would-cause-immediate-irreparable-harm-and-hardship.
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cedars.
King Solomon:
I'm seriously wondering if Cedars is actually a WT loyalist who is trying to discredit apostates, by trying to make us all appear to fit the WT characterization of angry, bitter, lying "mentally-diseased" apostates who arewilling to lie to others to discredit the Org. That would scare any doubting JWs who lurk to dismiss the information found here, throwing out the baby with Cedar's bathwater.
Another month goes by and when I come back you're still the same douche bag.
did it bug you as a witness that jesus only had to go from door to door for 3.5 years, and he was done; while he demanded that you do it for your whole life without preparing for the morrow?
i just remember a few years back reflecting on the daunting prospect of doing it my whole life if the end didn't come - "sooner rather than later".
what are your thoughts?.
I don't find my life as a Christian to be "cruel and a pointless waste of time and potential", and find very much the opposite to be true. I do preach quite a bit, but I don't waste my time going door-to-door as it is ineffective and not inline with how it was done by the 1st century Christians anyway.
So I guess we will not have any commonality on the subject and it's not worth discussing.
did it bug you as a witness that jesus only had to go from door to door for 3.5 years, and he was done; while he demanded that you do it for your whole life without preparing for the morrow?
i just remember a few years back reflecting on the daunting prospect of doing it my whole life if the end didn't come - "sooner rather than later".
what are your thoughts?.
TEC - Consider the context and content of the scripture - teaching and proclaiming the good news. The passage is not talking about gatherings. The evidence is plain - it's in writting in that passage nonetheless. Just because you say it isn't so, doesn't make it so. I think you might do well attending some JW meetings for some better bible education.
You seem a bit hostile here, but I will respond to this anyway to help you with your misunderstanding.
Although the wording "from house to house" does appear in multiple translations, the wording itself is a bit clunky (as often happens when translating, especially with ancient writings), and does not imply a literal knocking on a door, preaching, then moving to the next door in a repetitive fashion street by street. The term used here is more accurately translated as "in the homes" that aligns more with the reality of what occurred when preaching was done in public areas and then those doing the preaching would be invited into people's homes to continue the discussion.
Even Fred Franz admitted as much (at least privately and to himself) by some handwritten notes he made in his own bible. This very subject is covered by Ray Franz in one of his books.
afternoon all,.
a bit on my background.
i studied with the jw's a while ago in my teens, was acitve in meetings, and all the other things good witnesses do.
How do you know the past thinkers that came up with the "currently accepted meaning" are correct?
It (Romans) seems pretty self-explanatory to me, but I am definitely willing to listen if someone can show me the traditional understanding is incorrect. I assumed that you agreed about the meaning as well or you wouldn't have skipped it when we were discussing the other verses.
(BTW, if by "other cultural references" you mean things like rape then that's a discussion that's already been beaten to death again and again and has been shown that the word rape did not necessarily have the same meaning as it does now, so I don't see the point in wasting my time repeating what's already been shown so many times. Even a few hundred years ago rape did not necessarily mean sexual violence.)
