..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
@Cofty: ps - you completely ignored poopsiecakes question - what was the original purpose of snake venom?
what is the purpose of a bullet i ask? and could the same be said for a gun? Think of the snake as a gun, and the venom as a bullet. Without a bullet the gun is as harmless as any other tool out there.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
@Cofty: Then you need to study natural history, its endlessly fascinating.
Do you realise that the majority of fast animals are not even carnivorous, lets take horses, how do you explain the speed of the horse considering the fact that it's an herbivour and speed is not factored in its feeding. Now the fact that animals behave according to instincts coded into their DNAs is more fascinating.
@poopsiecakes: So please tell me, what was the original purpose of snake venom?
Now the fact that a bullet is mainly purposed to kill does not mean the gun is only for killing, ever heard of a water gun? yep, i bet it cant kill a worm, So the fact that the snake vemon kills does not mean the snake was made to kill. You should know by now that there is two sides to everything, and they serve for both good and bad purposes depending on the situation.
@The quite one:I appreciate your point about the snake having a defense, but can I assume that you wouldn't be phased at all by seeing a rabbit being poisoned/crushed to death/eaten alive by a snake? I doubt that you could feel nothing.. Does God have less empathy for animals than you or I ? (I'm not trying to be inflammatory, honestly.) Thanks for the reply.
are you a vegetarian? and what is the difference between the crushed rabbit serving as dinner for a snake and the chicken that getted boiled by man for food. One thing you should know by now is that animals dont kill for sport, they feed because they are hungry. Some humans on the other hand are cruel to animals for no good reason. That is when God condemns their action. They way some humans even kill animals for food is terrible and disgusting.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
i'm off to bed.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
@Cofty: What part of - " Every single feature of tens of thousands of species are perfectly desigend to kill or escape predation" did you not understand bioflex?
I very much understand you Cofty, the fact that you limit those designs and features to kill/escape being killed is what i fail to understand.
@poopsiecakes:That's your response to why a loving god created the deadly effects of snake venom? 
In case you didnt know, countless number of people die because they suffocate in water, perhaps it was bad creating water too right? There are consequencies for whatever actions taken. That is a fact of life you cannot ignore.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
@poopsiecakes: oooh OOH bioflex!! Tell me again how the polar bears, penguins, platypus, three-toed sloth and all the species of beetles and termites made their way to Noah's ark. It's my favorite story EVER!!
I would do that if you are able to explain how one human got up one morning and realized he was naked so needed to cloth himself, and decided to name himself distinctively, when neither of his ancestory/ relatives exhibit a tiny bit of such intellect?
hint: man and apes.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
@poopsiecakes: You conveniently avoided the snake venom issue. But that's ok. Wanna talk about jellyfish stingers?
What is the point of poison if it cant hurt you?
The same way? No. They operate mostly on instinct.
Exactly, so do animal intincts change? and please do ellaborate on your answer.
@Cofty: Yes, just like if we had never seen a gun we could examine it and test it and reasonably conclude that it was designed to kill things.
But not when it turns out to be a water gun right? surely a gun it is, but connot in any sense be used for killing right? So lets say the first time we ever came across the gun it was filled with water bullets, or some other harmless object, how would you come to the conclusion that the gun is meant for killing?
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
@Cofty: Every species has its unique strengths that it has evolved over millions of years to equip it to succed in hunting its food or in escaping predators. This arms race between predator and prey is responsible for most of the complexities of life that we marvel at today.
I can barely stop luaghing when i hear things like these Over millions of years? really? One thing you seem to ignore is that all the unique strenghts about said animals could have been as a result of their creation. Diversity works for creation too, dont you think?
You believe in the notion that given enough time organisms from a common descent would evolve to bocome so different right?
@poopsiecakes: Well Cofty, I doubt anyone will penetrate the mind shield that bioflex has built for himself. But hey, it's worth a shot right?
The same could be said about you.
@The quite One: Pain is universal to living things(plant and animals) .Animals dont behave like humans, they lack most feeling humans have, animals dont feel bad about seeing one of their kind die right infront of them. That is how they were made.They feel pain and that is all there is to it. Cruelty is mostly on the part of humans. Animals dont consider their prey to be suffering. Just humans.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
@Cofty: Are you really saying god made all these killing machines after the naked lady ate the fruit?
No, they were made before that incident took place. What you are saying is that the cheetah is not justified to have such speed if it just fed on plants. You are implying that the fact that the cheetah is fast means it was made to catch prey.
Animals only began to exhibit their abilities/features after the falling away. They were not cared/fed for, rather they had to feed and provide for themselves. That is when both humans and animal begun to exhibit their capabilities
@poopsiecakes: How about camouflage? Why did a loving god create animals with perfect camouflage? So that they could hide really well before pouncing to give a big hug? How about the venus flytrap? Was this created by a loving god to catch bubbles?
Isnt is beautiful? i mean how wonderful all the animals exhibit various fasciating characteristics, and yet all this is nullified by the evil effects that could come out of it.
Seriously bioflex, you really need to read more - or subscribe to Animal Planet. Or something, because your ignorance is embarrassing. The natural world is filled with natural suffering. It's life.
The natural world is surely filled with suffering and its quite evident, dont you think? Let me ask you, do you think animals feel/reason the same way as humans do?
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
@Cofty: Now let me throw in this logic
Lions, tigers, Cheeters, Jaguar = These all hunt similar preys. So why do they all have different builds and abilities? Why are cheetahs so fast? why do Jaguars climb trees and lions cannot ? And why are lions stronger than cheetahs ?
Its because that is how they were created. Each exhibiting different features.
..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
@The Quite One: haha, and i am asking how you came to the conclusion that animals do suffer? is it the pain you are concerned about or what?
