Posts by Mishnah

12

spiritual paradise and Bro. Gangas (GB)

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

when i was a bethelite 1974-76 the evening meals were what we called free-seating (no asigned seating).. i sat at a table with (gb member)george gangas.

he would regularly have questions that he would ask the younger brothers (kind of a bible trivia).. but being that i was only baptized 2 or 3 years i didn't want to answer questions, but i had one i wanted to asked him.. what is this spiritual paradise that the society keeps talking about?.

when i asked him he choked on his soup, and said he didn't know.. i felt bad that he didn't know.. about 2 days latter i sit at his table and basically the same brothers are their.

Mishnah

D_wiltshire, I notice that you now claim to have been at Bethel. Your claim to have been an elder coupled with the appeal letter you allegedly wrote was really something. Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that you served in such capacities and thought it would make any difference to write the letter you wrote? Do you really expect anyone to believe that Mr. Gangas replied to you as you claim? I guess most of the exs here will give you support, because they need to do so in order to feel part of a group after having been cut off from one already. But stop insulting the intelligences of the few sane people aboard this ship.

Mishnah

31

Alleged Prophecies Fulfilled by Jesus

by JanH in

jw
friends

most exjws are familiar with the claims that the gospel accounts about jesus "fulfills" around 300 prophecies in the old testament.

this claim is taken verbatim from christian fundamentalists.

checking out these so-called prophecies will reveal that they do not stand up to scrutiny.

Mishnah

Jan, you are missing several points.

HOSEA 11:1 - You mention types and antitypes but do nothing to demonstrate that Hosea did not have a second fulfillment in mind. Matthew believed that he did and if we accept the premise that they were both inspired by the same spirit, then there is no problem. You need to _prove_ that they were not inspired to know the secondary fulfillment and that you have not done.

TWO DONKEYS - To "sit" upon something could convey the idea that both he and his garments were placed upon the animals. So Jesus and his property sat on the two animals, and in effect that meant that Jesus was upon the two in terms of his person and his property. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to biblical Hebrew. So you make wild comments about what Zechariah 9:9 means. You, in effect, distort matters to fulfill your own speculative condemnation. This is just what you condemn Matthew for doing. The Hebrew text uses the conjunction waw which can mean "even" or "and." You limit its meaning self-servingly to skew the issue to your liking. That is dishonest. The LXX translates it using KAI which can also mean "even" or "and."

If this is the best you can do, and apparently it is since this is what you led with, then you have nothing legitimate to offer. All you do is state opinion as fact.

Mishnah

105

Issue Facing Apostates

by Mishnah in

jw
friends

most of the stuff posted here is negative, hateful, and blasphemous against god.

even if many of you are right in saying that the jws are wrong on many and important issues, that does not make you right.

so unless you are convinced that there is no biblical god you are facing serious trouble when you die or if the lord comes during your lifetime.

Mishnah

Rex, you are making excellent points. Tina is just confused and needs help. I understand her mental disposition after reading her material. She is going through a rough transformation and it is not uncommon for someone to leave one group bitter and hostile, only to view all other groups the same way. Ultimately, she is forced to link the group she left with God and various elements of religious thought, to help preserve a sane mental state. (The reason being that thoughts of consequences, etc., can be almost unbearable for many.)

I am sure there is more to her presently complex psyche, but I think the more we try to reason with her and others like her it will either help restore some balance to her or push her over the edge. The choice is hers.

As for ianao, this one is a clear example of someone suffering from a tortured mindset. That is why ianao can only reaffirm what others say for him. His thought process is shattered from past experience and there is a certain fear in venturing too far out on your own. It is much safer to just repeat and reaffirm what someone else says. That is why we get the "well said," and "again, well said" replies.

46

The BRCI Conference

by larc in

jw
friends

are any of you going to the brci conference in waterloo, canada?

it should be coming up soon, in a matter of weeks.

they are a really good group of x's.

Mishnah

goo, when/where did janh plagiarize your thesis?

105

Issue Facing Apostates

by Mishnah in

jw
friends

most of the stuff posted here is negative, hateful, and blasphemous against god.

even if many of you are right in saying that the jws are wrong on many and important issues, that does not make you right.

so unless you are convinced that there is no biblical god you are facing serious trouble when you die or if the lord comes during your lifetime.

Mishnah

ianao, it is hard for me to comprehend the very bad argument you present. Basically, you suggest that one may blaspheme God and that is okay, but not his spirit. Well first of all such a person would have to ask to be forgiven. Do you think the blasphemers on this board repent? Maybe they will, maybe they will not. But that is the very heart of the issue! RISK.

Secondly, you are operating under a misunderstanding of what the Bible teaches about blasphemy and forgiveness. Anyone who blasphemes against another in whom the spirit resides, is in trouble. Notice that in 1 Thessalonians 4:8 it says, "the man that shows disregard is disregarding, not man, but God, who puts his holy spirit in you." How much more so then is it a disregard for God, whose spirit it is!

I am not sure you understand the very simple argument I presented about risk. You may want to think it over more.

105

Issue Facing Apostates

by Mishnah in

jw
friends

most of the stuff posted here is negative, hateful, and blasphemous against god.

even if many of you are right in saying that the jws are wrong on many and important issues, that does not make you right.

so unless you are convinced that there is no biblical god you are facing serious trouble when you die or if the lord comes during your lifetime.

Mishnah

Farkel, there does not seem to be any way I can help you understand the basic argument I presented. It is a simple matter of persons, like yourself, taking an unnecessary risk. If you want to do so then so be it. But you do not have to in order to get your point across and that is what I tried to help you with. You evidently aren't concerned about it, so just ignore the thread. But given your participation, it clearly does bother your. That is why you are trying to minimize it in public and in your own mind. I understand.

105

Issue Facing Apostates

by Mishnah in

jw
friends

most of the stuff posted here is negative, hateful, and blasphemous against god.

even if many of you are right in saying that the jws are wrong on many and important issues, that does not make you right.

so unless you are convinced that there is no biblical god you are facing serious trouble when you die or if the lord comes during your lifetime.

Mishnah

Gladiator,

Yes I understand that. Taking risks is a part of life. My concern is that many of you are taking an unnecessary risk. As I said, you can argue against JWs but without setting yourself up against a potentially existing God. It is not a course of wisdom to, without any reason, put oneself in such risky position when you do not have to do it. The risks of life you speak of are unavoidable in most cases, and where they are avoidable most thinking persons avoid them and take roads that are less risky unless they have face the risk in order to achieve their goals. Such is not that case here.

105

Issue Facing Apostates

by Mishnah in

jw
friends

most of the stuff posted here is negative, hateful, and blasphemous against god.

even if many of you are right in saying that the jws are wrong on many and important issues, that does not make you right.

so unless you are convinced that there is no biblical god you are facing serious trouble when you die or if the lord comes during your lifetime.

Mishnah

Jan, I raised the issue so I am clearly not afraid of it. But you resort to name-calling, which is a clear sign of being intimidated.

I said that just because the JWs are wrong on certain issues does not make you right. What else could I possibly have meant than that the person is not necessarily right about the thing the JWs got wrong?

I understand it may be hard for you to admit you are wrong, even on such a simple point like this. But that is the way with many anti-religionists: They cower behind name-calling and misunderstood arguments.

My point was simple: No one knows for absolute certainly if the biblical God exists or not. But there is no wisdom in blaspheming a potentially-existing God when you don't have to! You can make the same points against the JWs using less hate and blasphemy, but you don't. Since there is no advantage in acting this way, but a very possible disadvantage, you show a lack of wisdom. The same is true if you were speaking blasphemously about any other potentially-existing God. You can make your arguments without out-and-out blasphemy and hate. It would also be a course of wisdom in not pitting yourself against the possibility of error.

105

Issue Facing Apostates

by Mishnah in

jw
friends

most of the stuff posted here is negative, hateful, and blasphemous against god.

even if many of you are right in saying that the jws are wrong on many and important issues, that does not make you right.

so unless you are convinced that there is no biblical god you are facing serious trouble when you die or if the lord comes during your lifetime.

Mishnah

JAVA,

Can you please stop misrepresenting Vienna? She/he agreed with me. Since you do not agree with me, you certainly cannot agree with her/him. Do you understand this?

You quoted me and claimed it was mean. Where? Can you be more specific? Just because I do not agree with you and point out that many of you are hateful, negative and blasphemous, is not mean. It is true! Do you deny that there is a great deal of hate on this board? Negativity? Blasphemy?

The point of my post was not to give you "crap." But to outline the risk haters and blasphemers on this board are taking. That risk is real. The haters and blasphemers may have nothing to worry about, so long as God does not exist. But therein lies the risk. A wise person would take a course that does not so blatantly expose him to such a risk and still make the same poitns. So why not minimize your risk? Do you understand this now?

105

Issue Facing Apostates

by Mishnah in

jw
friends

most of the stuff posted here is negative, hateful, and blasphemous against god.

even if many of you are right in saying that the jws are wrong on many and important issues, that does not make you right.

so unless you are convinced that there is no biblical god you are facing serious trouble when you die or if the lord comes during your lifetime.

Mishnah

Slayer,

For such a simple point you apparently skipped right over it.

The point is this: There is a risk involved because you don't know if God, the biblical God, exists or not. Many people believe it is obvious from various manifestations of his intelligence, but others say he does not exist because of theories that they believe explain away alleged proofs of his existence. Either way, there is a measure of risk. You could be wrong.

A wise person would evaluate the risk and act in a manner that creates as little risk as possible for him or his family, not thrust his hand in the fire just to see if it will get burnt or not. Maybe you'll pull it back in time, maybe it's too hot even for brief exposure. The point is, with any chance that you could be wrong, why act like a blasphemer and subject yourself and your family to risk when you can make the same points against the JWs without acting like a blasphemer?