millie210

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Posts by millie210

• 
  54

  Surprise Surprise. Got a letter from bethel today.,

  by label licker in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals
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  millie210

  So basically they do nothing.

  Well that is really telling.
• 
  51

  The limits of science.

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for a long time i have accepted that when a theist inserts god into some as yet not understood scientific matter, it constitutes a god of the gaps argument.

  as a theist myself, the problem with this for me, is that it implies an arbitrary limit on gods ingenuity.

  for example, the idea that god created automatic processes to do certain things in nature, and yet with other things the need for a direct hand to either tweak or directly organise!

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  millie210

  Remember, even Jesus Christ of the bible ask/needed funding/donations.

  Thats a very good point Theredeemer.

  I seem to sound negative but I honestly dont feel that way inside.

  Im just not going to leap out of the boat (JWs) and grab the first thing that floats.

  I dont need a hero. I dont need a place to put my trust. I just need to know what is really true.

  Everything has its drawbacks. Even science.

  I am nowhere near ready to place my trust in science until I see a compelling reason.

  So far, every reason I see FOR it- an equal and opposite reason could be made against it.

  Thats ok. Im going to keep reading.

  I just really want to know, thats all.
• 
  51

  The limits of science.

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for a long time i have accepted that when a theist inserts god into some as yet not understood scientific matter, it constitutes a god of the gaps argument.

  as a theist myself, the problem with this for me, is that it implies an arbitrary limit on gods ingenuity.

  for example, the idea that god created automatic processes to do certain things in nature, and yet with other things the need for a direct hand to either tweak or directly organise!

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  millie210

  Thats ok with me OnTheWayOut.

  it was good enough to read twice!
• 
  51

  The limits of science.

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for a long time i have accepted that when a theist inserts god into some as yet not understood scientific matter, it constitutes a god of the gaps argument.

  as a theist myself, the problem with this for me, is that it implies an arbitrary limit on gods ingenuity.

  for example, the idea that god created automatic processes to do certain things in nature, and yet with other things the need for a direct hand to either tweak or directly organise!

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  millie210

  I am assuming you meant me even though you didnt say so Theredeemer...

  and no, I dont care to!

  I was in fact, willing to edit my post and change the word "facts" to the word "thoughts".

  but I was too late to edit.

  Darn.

  I grew up on a university campus. Had a parent who worked In the biology department.

  I remember all that went on.

  So no. No facts (and no arguement). I just remember how everything depended on funding.

  Its interesting who does the funding.

  Im sorry for sounding so pompous.
• 
  51

  The limits of science.

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for a long time i have accepted that when a theist inserts god into some as yet not understood scientific matter, it constitutes a god of the gaps argument.

  as a theist myself, the problem with this for me, is that it implies an arbitrary limit on gods ingenuity.

  for example, the idea that god created automatic processes to do certain things in nature, and yet with other things the need for a direct hand to either tweak or directly organise!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  millie210

  I am always amazed at how readily some trust science.

  There is very little "science" that gets pursued or published outside the world of academia.

  Scientists devote their life to a subject that is dependant on grants and universities in order for them to research.

  The beast must be fed.

  The politics and jockeying for position that go on behind the scenes is incredible.

  There are very few scientists who can even operate outside this very controlled ($$$) world.

  So there are some facts. I like facts.
• 
  22

  NOAH, The Movie

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just saw it last night.. did anyone see it?.

  i gave it 2 stars.

  kinda boring and pretty much a fantasy!.

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  millie210

  If you view it just as a Hollywood movie - it was "ok".

  If you wanted any shred of historical accuracy or even for the story to make sense (!) then it was a letdown.

  I didnt expect muich.

  I wasnt disappointed.
• 
  70

  Jehovah told to Moses: "....kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man"

  by opusdei1972 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in numbers 31 we read the following:.

  jehovah then told moses:2 take vengeance for the israelites on the midianites.

  afterward you will be gathered to your people.3 so moses spoke to the people, saying: equip men from among you for battle against midian and to execute jehovahs vengeance on midian.4 you should send 1,000 of each tribe of all the tribes of israel into the army............ 7 they waged war against midian, just as jehovah had commanded moses, and they killed every male.8 along with the others slain, they killed the kings of midian, namely, evi, rekem, zur, hur, and reba, the five kings of midian.

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  millie210

  Thanks for adding to a discussion Oppostate.

  Your post jarred an old memory in me about the whole connection to the Canaanite thing.

  I guess about 15 years ago I was researching that...it seems (I am qualifying this statement so I wont get leapt on for not being stunningly correct)

  it seems, that I remember reading the Canaanites had connections/roots going back to Noah's sons and the way that played out geographically as well as how they were viewed. By viewed I mean in the Bibles context of whether they had worship that was acceptable to God or not.

  I don't remember all the details this long after however.

  If anyone can educate me on that I would appreciate it.

  On a different note,

  War involves atrocity. People die. Its not pleasant. Most of us today are enjoying a civil life based on those wars having been fought.

  Again. how do you judge the success of a war?

  The Peloponnesian War, the genocide of the Khmer Rouge, or to bring it to a more modern context, Hitler, all shaped and changed the human story.

  I cannot expect someone (if that someone exists) namely God, to use MY emotional sentiments when he has his own. His own being much more outside the limited context of time and wisdom I am able to use in my short time I have been around.

  I don't find the analytical look at what he (the may or may not exist God) did to be threatening. I find it to be - if I can study it- enlightening.

  I can always "hate him" later I guess. But first I want to understand.
• 
  70

  Jehovah told to Moses: "....kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man"

  by opusdei1972 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in numbers 31 we read the following:.

  jehovah then told moses:2 take vengeance for the israelites on the midianites.

  afterward you will be gathered to your people.3 so moses spoke to the people, saying: equip men from among you for battle against midian and to execute jehovahs vengeance on midian.4 you should send 1,000 of each tribe of all the tribes of israel into the army............ 7 they waged war against midian, just as jehovah had commanded moses, and they killed every male.8 along with the others slain, they killed the kings of midian, namely, evi, rekem, zur, hur, and reba, the five kings of midian.

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  millie210

  For many religious people, the "parameters" of what they feel able to question are determined by their existing beliefs.

  That is a profiund statement. I think you could take the word "religious" out and it would still be a true statement.

  Steve I really appreciate how you look at things from many angles.

  It seems that it is like a prism. Things change depending on where you are standing.

  I esp. appreciate you being willing to at least discuss something other than the easy conclusion any one can arrive at.

  To me, the "truth" ( I am using this word in no way connected to JWs) is worth a hard look.

  I am willing to suspend my natural outrage in search of it.

  I can always add my human indignation at what my search reveals at any point cant I?
• 
  70

  Jehovah told to Moses: "....kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man"

  by opusdei1972 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in numbers 31 we read the following:.

  jehovah then told moses:2 take vengeance for the israelites on the midianites.

  afterward you will be gathered to your people.3 so moses spoke to the people, saying: equip men from among you for battle against midian and to execute jehovahs vengeance on midian.4 you should send 1,000 of each tribe of all the tribes of israel into the army............ 7 they waged war against midian, just as jehovah had commanded moses, and they killed every male.8 along with the others slain, they killed the kings of midian, namely, evi, rekem, zur, hur, and reba, the five kings of midian.

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  millie210

  Dismissing Servant, that is pretty funny.

  Line up ladies!
• 
  70

  Jehovah told to Moses: "....kill every woman who has had sexual relations with a man"

  by opusdei1972 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in numbers 31 we read the following:.

  jehovah then told moses:2 take vengeance for the israelites on the midianites.

  afterward you will be gathered to your people.3 so moses spoke to the people, saying: equip men from among you for battle against midian and to execute jehovahs vengeance on midian.4 you should send 1,000 of each tribe of all the tribes of israel into the army............ 7 they waged war against midian, just as jehovah had commanded moses, and they killed every male.8 along with the others slain, they killed the kings of midian, namely, evi, rekem, zur, hur, and reba, the five kings of midian.

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• 

  millie210

  Opusde1972, Hi and thanks for sharing your view with me. I really appreciate it.

  Im going to back off a bit here, as I feel I am hijacking your very interesting thread.

  I havent read at any apologists sites since I felt the big shift away from the JWs internally - I read some before that when I was trying to defend them.

  Mostly I read Greg Stafford. So I guess ONE site is the sum of what I read.

  I am glad you feel that you have found what works for you. I havent yet.

  But if people share, and people read their thoughts, that is the way things get clearer. Right? Im hoping!

  Thanks agian for doint that for me.