needs_lots

Joined

• started 21 topics
• posted 153 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by needs_lots

• 
  84

  WT PR Statement - silentlambs march

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was read and given to all media at the march.

  the outrage is to great to express, who are these people?

  silentlambs .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  needs_lots

  glad you agree, nice talking with ya
• 
  84

  WT PR Statement - silentlambs march

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was read and given to all media at the march.

  the outrage is to great to express, who are these people?

  silentlambs .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  needs_lots

  : CYGNUS, could you comment on the application of MATT 18 in making an abuse victim confront her abuser despite her pleas not to be made to do it.

  Yes. I think it's stupid. I do not and will not ever belong to any religious organization, especially one that follows the Bible. An abusee should go to the police, not the Bible. Of course, chances are if the abuser is prosecuted she might have to testify in court and "face" her abuser then, so really your point is moot.

  Close but you missed the point. Vicki went to the elders for guidance in dealing with her emotions at being abused. She did not go to them for retribution against her dad. The Society however was more interested in dealing with the sinner and determining his state of repentance. They used vicki as a tool in dealing with her dad. And once done with her they discarded her like a used kleenex.

  True that if her dad was prosecuted by the courts she would have had to testify but it would be in a controlled situation where there was a clear protection of vicki as a witness. Making her sit at the table with her dad and go over in detail her abuse sure as hell does not strike me as spiritual guidance, but perhaps I am not thinking in the same context as you are.

  PS if the courts had gotten involved then I am sure that they would have done more than suspend his mic handling. Of course perhaps in your state that is the punishment for Pedophiles.

  You can do more harm by ignorant believing a PR statement that is not backed up by real proof than by examining the facts. It did not work for soldiers in the Neurumberg Trials and it will not work for the society at large.

  As for how it will help the children. When the society realizes that its hoards of money might be at risk then they might find that the spirit moves them to ACT rather than write.

  Perhaps you would feel differently about the words of the society if you had been abused as a child.
• 
  84

  WT PR Statement - silentlambs march

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was read and given to all media at the march.

  the outrage is to great to express, who are these people?

  silentlambs .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  needs_lots

  cygnus,

  The point being that the society says one thing and does another. Its easy to print a statement, and have no intention to following through. We know this for a fact. Its true that you dont have the facts as you said, but we do! We have seen the letters, and heard the lies. SO perhaps you could comment more on the actions of the watchtower rather than the words of the spin doctors. Most of us here have seen first hand the pain the society has inflicted. They know that there are laws that must be put in writting, but facts are facts. They had no intention to report to police, and to bury it in the congregation. Perhaps if you were at the trial you would have heard first hand the testimony of 5 elders who wanted to report, and were put down as elders for doing so. They know the truth, and do you really think that my husband and I would sacrifice our whole life for a lie. We have put everything on the line. They had up to 8 lawyers from both NewYOrk and canada defending themselves, and we had only one. I didnt even know this chat existed when i filed the lawsuit 5 years ago. I only knew that what they did to me was wrong. So we have fought this alone.
• 
  4

  watchtower double talk

  by needs_lots in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  cygnus; .

  i read with amazement your post in defence of the watch tower pr release.

  i do want to know which bethel you are stationed at and how long it has been since you stepped outside the walls of the compound.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  needs_lots

  Cygnus;

  I read with amazement your post in defence of the watch tower pr release. I do want to know which Bethel you are stationed at and how long it has been since you stepped outside the walls of the compound. Have you ever heard of the Stockholm syndrome; where a perfectly normal person who is held captive for long enough will begin to identify with the terrorists who control their life.

  My wife and I just went through a twelve day trial where we fought to get the society to acknowledge the wrongs they did to my wife. As for your comment about Idiot elders; the society keeps these men in the dark and feeds them shit just like little mushrooms. and the Mushrooms are happy because they only know life in the dark. The shit that the society pumps out does nothing to help these men understand the responsability that comes with the position they occupy within a closed society such as the JW's.

  In addition the only man who told the truth on the stand was one of those "IDIOT" elders. The other bethelites lied through their teeth and tried to pin it on anyone but themselves in spite of the massive number of "secret" letters that we uncovered and produced to prove that the confrontation was directed from the Bethel itself.

  As far as reporting , the elder who eventually reported the matter was immediatly removed as an elder for being strong willed and then later DF'd for being unreasonable.

  CYGNUS, could you comment on the application of MATT 18 in making an abuse victim confront her abuser despite her pleas not to be made to do it. And how about the Bethel directing the cong elders to "persuade strongly" the victim that she had to apply Matt 18 or else be blood guilty at armageddon.

  OH yes, when the victim finally had a mental collapse due to the trauma of having to relive the abuse she was told that she did not have the spirituallity of a proper JW and that she could not live up to the high spiritual standards of the JW's. And that she had HAD to show signs of forgiveness to the abuser. ( PS the abuser was given the SEVERE repremand of not being able to handle the microphone for 6 months) However he was able to give prayers and serve as a pioneer and a mentor to young married couples. (All at the blessing of the Bethel)

  The Bethel has never said they were sorry or asked what they could do to help vicki. The only way they know is the court system.

  It remindes me of ADAM AND EVE and the snake in the garden of eden. The BETHEL is the snake trying to tell eve to eat the forbiden fruit in order to turn them away from god. The forbiden fruit in this case is the WATCHTOWER and AWAKE magazines which hide the true message of god in the bible and pervert the good intentions of millions of people into serving the anti-christ through fear of speaking up against the Governing Body.

  SCOTT
• 
  84

  WT PR Statement - silentlambs march

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was read and given to all media at the march.

  the outrage is to great to express, who are these people?

  silentlambs .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  needs_lots

  Cygnus;

  I read with amazement your post in defence of the watch tower pr release. I do want to know which Bethel you are stationed at and how long it has been since you stepped outside the walls of the compound. Have you ever heard of the Stockholm syndrome; where a perfectly normal person who is held captive for long enough will begin to identify with the terrorists who control their life.

  My wife and I just went through a twelve day trial where we fought to get the society to acknowledge the wrongs they did to my wife. As for your comment about Idiot elders; the society keeps these men in the dark and feeds them shit just like little mushrooms. and the Mushrooms are happy because they only know life in the dark. The shit that the society pumps out does nothing to help these men understand the responsability that comes with the position they occupy within a closed society such as the JW's.

  In addition the only man who told the truth on the stand was one of those "IDIOT" elders. The other bethelites lied through their teeth and tried to pin it on anyone but themselves in spite of the massive number of "secret" letters that we uncovered and produced to prove that the confrontation was directed from the Bethel itself.

  As far as reporting , the elder who eventually reported the matter was immediatly removed as an elder for being strong willed and then later DF'd for being unreasonable.

  CYGNUS, could you comment on the application of MATT 18 in making an abuse victim confront her abuser despite her pleas not to be made to do it. And how about the Bethel directing the cong elders to "persuade strongly" the victim that she had to apply Matt 18 or else be blood guilty at armageddon.

  OH yes, when the victim finally had a mental collapse due to the trauma of having to relive the abuse she was told that she did not have the spirituallity of a proper JW and that she could not live up to the high spiritual standards of the JW's. And that she had HAD to show signs of forgiveness to the abuser. ( PS the abuser was given the SEVERE repremand of not being able to handle the microphone for 6 months) However he was able to give prayers and serve as a pioneer and a mentor to young married couples. (All at the blessing of the Bethel)

  The Bethel has never said they were sorry or asked what they could do to help vicki. The only way they know is the court system.

  It remindes me of ADAM AND EVE and the snake in the garden of eden. The BETHEL is the snake trying to tell eve to eat the forbiden fruit in order to turn them away from god. The forbiden fruit in this case is the WATCHTOWER and AWAKE magazines which hide the true message of god in the bible and pervert the good intentions of millions of people into serving the anti-christ through fear of speaking up against the Governing Body.

  SCOTT
• 
  16

  Canadian trial ends......almost.....thanks to all

  by needs_lots in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i wanted to give everyone who came to my trial a great big "thank you".

  it was a very difficult 2 and a half weeks.

  the support from this board was overwhelming.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  needs_lots

  Hello to everyone,

  I wanted to give everyone who came to my trial a great big "THANK YOU". It was a very difficult 2 and a half weeks. The support from this board was overwhelming. I got home late last night to 3 little girls whom have not seen mommy in 3 weeks. I really wanted to be with all of you at the march tomorrow. I tried really hard to get there, but it would have cost too much last minute. I don't think my girls would have let me go either! I hope to get some kind of closure from the trial.

  I think the judge realizes what I went through, but whether or not she can do anything is another issue. Its amazing how much this court trial has cost. For example, just to have the Doctor give his expert opinion it cost $1500.00. I got the bill today. Sucks. Oh well.

  I hope to hear how everything went in New York. I hope you don't get hit by the storm. I wonder if the bethel knows your all coming?

  The judge will give her decision in January. A very long time to wait. We got lots of press coverage, and we made the news 4 days. I wouldn't wish this trial on anyone. Even though I had letters, experts, ex-elders, and others to help testify with me, it was still a difficult one to fight.

  My life has been so damaged by them, and to sit everyday and listen to even "head at bethel" lie, was a difficult thing. They knew all the things to say to get themselves out of trouble. They must have been briefed everyday before.

  Anyway......I will keep in touch.

  vic
• 
  20

  help, i need info for trial

  by needs_lots in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i need to know where abouts in the jw books does it say that you must obey your elders, and that if you don't listen, you can be disfellowshipped.

  at the trial on friday, the head of bethel said that no one in the organization could be disfellowshipped for not following elders commands.

  i know its written somewhere, and i have only today and tomorrow to find it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  needs_lots

  Thanks so much everyone. I don't know how I could have done this alone. My husband had to go back to work in Fredericton, and the trial is in Toronto, which is 15 hours away. I will be on my own monday. I will try and put all this info together. I love the wt quote on subjection, organized to acc. our ministry. The judge should like the headship one too! THanks again. Its nice to have a family like all of you who have helped me so much, and provided encouragement. This has been a very difficult 2 weeks. I just want this to be over so I can get on with my life, and finally have a sense of closure. I miss my 3 little girls. I haven't seen them in almost 3 weeks. I will check my mail.
• 
  20

  help, i need info for trial

  by needs_lots in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i need to know where abouts in the jw books does it say that you must obey your elders, and that if you don't listen, you can be disfellowshipped.

  at the trial on friday, the head of bethel said that no one in the organization could be disfellowshipped for not following elders commands.

  i know its written somewhere, and i have only today and tomorrow to find it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  needs_lots

  Hello everyone,

  I need to know where abouts in the jw books does it say that you must obey your elders, and that if you don't listen, you can be disfellowshipped. At the trial on friday, the head of bethel said that no one in the organization could be disfellowshipped for not following elders commands. I know its written somewhere, and I have only today and tomorrow to find it. THey said that i could have refused to go to the judicial hearing of my father if thats what I choose to do. I know thats a lie. THey said that they would have done nothing to me had I not attended. Please, I need everyones help on this. thanks,

  Trial should be done monday. I believe all the major news stations will be there to hear final statements. I hope the judge can see through their lies. It made me sick to think that they swore on the bible to tell the truth, and yet all lies came from their mouths, and they call themselves Christians!
• 
  26

  NEWSPAPERS - VICKI BOER ABUSE CASE - SEP 18

  by hawkaw in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  well we have the toronto sun today reporting yesterday's testimony.

  so 1 million more people will read the what vicki's psychiatrist said.. also note what the 3rd elder who was in the confrontation stated below.

  seems he believed that the other elders had dealt with the issue.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  needs_lots

  We found out last night that Mr. Walker actually worked hand in hand with head office and lived at bethel. He made it sound yesterday like he was just another elder from a neighbouring congregation. So he got mud on his face today. The Judge also read in the judicial committee letter that they asked my father if he was"getting his due". THe judge was curious as to what this meant. It was explained that it meant"they asked Vicki's mother if she was giving her husband enough sex" that perhaps that was why he had went to his daughter. She was shocked! I thought she was going to fall off her chair. Could you believe that they wrote that in their letter to the society, blame everyone else but the abuser. Sorry my spelling is bad, lack of a good education.
• 
  25

  NEW - VICKI BOER CASE - Toronto Sun sept. 11

  by hawkaw in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i notice the defence counsel had the disgusting gaul to bring up vicki's sex life.

  don't these f___ing people get it?

  a lot of this happened because of what she went through.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  needs_lots

  Please respect me then, I don't wish this kind of fate on anyone. What my father did to me is wrong. But He is living his hell now. I don't feel it is nessecsary to make it worse for him. He knows what he did, lets leave it at that. THe reason i did not press charges is because I thought he had changed, and I was giving him another chance, But a situation happened recently to let me know that some things do not change. I have choosen not to see him, but i would appreciate not seeing his pic\ here, it will be bad enough in court when I will have to face him. It is just to bad that he did not appoligize to me. Iam still kind of scared of what he will do. Please!!!!