when i was still serving as an elder in the late summer of 2006 in a congregation of jws in socal we received a letter from the "christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses" (read: the governing body) directing that anyone pursuing a higher education would be disqualified from privileges of service: elder, servant, pioneer, etc.
i remember this quite distinctly because i had just received by ba in education in june a few months before this.
in 2002, i had decided to pursue a degree under the society's then current "it's a personal decision" policy and was quite shocked at their drastic policy change.
The new elders manual state that an elders qualifications MAY be called into question if their children get a university education.
What bothers me the most about the organization is that they have a MULTITUDE of rules, regulations and polices on the things the Bible does not directly condemn or condone. The result is that people cannot think for themselves.
when i was still serving as an elder in the late summer of 2006 in a congregation of jws in socal we received a letter from the "christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses" (read: the governing body) directing that anyone pursuing a higher education would be disqualified from privileges of service: elder, servant, pioneer, etc.
i remember this quite distinctly because i had just received by ba in education in june a few months before this.
in 2002, i had decided to pursue a degree under the society's then current "it's a personal decision" policy and was quite shocked at their drastic policy change.
The daughter of an elder studies at university far from home with the goal of
earning a lot of money. The elder and his wife tell other brothers that their daughter is doing
this at their request, in view of the good economic situation that she will have and the prestige
which the family will gain
I have a major issue with this and always have. What is wrong with EARNING A LOT OF MONEY!!!! Their are prominent elders in the organization who EARN A LOT OF MONEY!!! They are used on Circuit and District Assemblies and hold responsible positions in District and Circuit organizations. I actually had one very wealthy, prominent elder tell me: "Live your life like the system is going to end tomorrow, but spend your money like its never going to end." What does that tell you???????
when i was still serving as an elder in the late summer of 2006 in a congregation of jws in socal we received a letter from the "christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses" (read: the governing body) directing that anyone pursuing a higher education would be disqualified from privileges of service: elder, servant, pioneer, etc.
i remember this quite distinctly because i had just received by ba in education in june a few months before this.
in 2002, i had decided to pursue a degree under the society's then current "it's a personal decision" policy and was quite shocked at their drastic policy change.
I have yet to see anyone earn beyond a normal living wage by getting a college degree.
Not in this economy.
White Dove - Most JWs do not know what a normal living wage is. I work with THOUSANDS of folks with college degrees making HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of DOLLARS in this economy!!!!!!
I was a JW for 38 years, including 15 as an elder and w/o a college degree I make 100K! With a degree I could be a Director or VP and make 200-500K doing the same work!
To state that a college degree does not matter in this economy is ignorant. And frankly most JWs are just that when it comes to education and making money...ignorant.
the easiest place to start understanding a spectral concept, such as cults, is to indentify it's lowest and highest points rather than starting somewhere in the middle.. so lets call the lowest point of the cult spectrum benign and the highest point destructive.. a good example of an extremely benign cult would be the following of the not so popular 80s movie: the princess bride of which i consider myself a member (no documentation .
if you were to come up to me and claim to be part of the princess bride's cult following i could figure out whether you are a true member by asking you a few questions.
based on your answers i could then conclude that you either meet the criteria or that you do not.
@discreetslave - I just bumped this book up on my reading list. The excerpts are fascinating. My parents both lack self-esteem. They were "herded" into the organization in the early '70s, the Witness boomer period. The external validation the JWs provide or withold is what keeps them both in there even though they had an "unscriptural" divorce (JW lingo).
For me to break lose I had to change the source of my validation from external to internal. The book you quoted explains why and now I understand the discussion on cults. I worked hard at being a JW and rising in the ranks because of external validation and the affirmation that I was indeed more righteous than those who did not. When I lost my position I felt the inevitable guilt that comes with the loss of that validation and constant reminder that I was a failure. To break free I had to allow myself to think and let be parasite living on the thinking of others or being under "mind control." I understand the need for this information much better now. Thanks.
I sent you a PM.
i recently completed an exhaustive review of an unofficial copy of the new elders manual.
my father, who is currently serving as an elder told me a friend of his in the service department told him it was on the internet so i eagerly looked for it and found it.
yes, i know it was a violation of copyright, but while at bethel i made copies of many technical manuals which is also a copy of copyright so the wts hypocrisy does not concern me.. i was appointed as an elder the year the pay attention book (manual replaced by this one) was released so i have very good working knowledge of the old book and could compare the two books.
@poopsie - I'd really like to show you some brazen conduct.
@pistoff - Did we serve on some JCs together? LOL!!!
in the thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/213523/1/feeling-a-bit-alienated, concerned jw wrote:.
mistakes will happen.
concerned jw, if mistakes will happen, i was wondering what mistakes you feel the jw organization is currently making?
Concerned JW - I used to give Talk #73 - Acquiring a Heart of Wisdom. One of the main points of that talk is that LOVE and not PERFECTION is the mark of true Christians. John 13:35 is the proof text given. I devoted over 30 years of my life to the JW including 10 at Bethel and 20 as an MS and Elder. I spent countless hours helping people with their problems and ministering to the needs of the congregation. But when I needed them the most, my fellow Elders cut me loose. I was home from work on disability for depression 9 months and the elders made a meager 4 attempts to visit me. I was removed as a elder after a suicide attempt. And my wife requested separation and I obliged all of my family and friends cut me off. When I was in need I had to go to my disfellowshipped friends from back in the day. They GLADLY helped.
I do not expect perfection. I do expect appointed men to practice what they preach. I hold them to a higher standard. And they failed miserably. I wrote the Branch and received little comfort. I have not experienced the love JWs preach about. Only hypocrisy.
in the key to family happiness book, the wbts says that if you have sex with your marriage mate after they cheat on you, and you knew it, you cannot divorce them.. i was disgusted by learning that.
i only discovered this recently, but i am very angry.
what if your husand tells you that he'll keep screwing other women if you don't have sex with him?
It gets better. If your mate witholds sex relations and you have sex with someone else you will get a pass by the elders if your are "repentant".
in a number of different threads comments have been made about the motives of the gb and the wtbts.
it made me think, what is their ultimate goal?
what is their end game?.
In a number of different threads comments have been made about the motives of the GB and the WTBTS. It made me think, what is their ULTIMATE goal? What is their end game?
Avoiding lawsuits, controlling the rank and file, protecting the reputation of the "organization" and keeping the cash flowing all seem to be goals, but to me they appear to be more like strategies or designs to an end. What is the end?
I lived at HQ and have seen how the upper echelon of the WTBS lives. Besides free room and board and traveling nothing about their lifestyle screams "I am enjoying the high life". Its certainly not how I would spend millions if I had direct access to them.
So what do you think or know? What is the ULTIMATE goal of the Watchtower Society?
the easiest place to start understanding a spectral concept, such as cults, is to indentify it's lowest and highest points rather than starting somewhere in the middle.. so lets call the lowest point of the cult spectrum benign and the highest point destructive.. a good example of an extremely benign cult would be the following of the not so popular 80s movie: the princess bride of which i consider myself a member (no documentation .
if you were to come up to me and claim to be part of the princess bride's cult following i could figure out whether you are a true member by asking you a few questions.
based on your answers i could then conclude that you either meet the criteria or that you do not.
@discreet slave - I guess my problem with the term cult is the same problem I have with term "apostate" or any other label that you can give a person or an organization. I have often been called an "uppity nigger from the North." It is label that has been used when people I work with cannot refute the logic of my arguments on engineering. I hate it when a person is discredited by label instead of by the argument. If I know something is hurtful to me or is flat out wrong I don't feel a need to label it, I just need to avoid it.
The JWs label anyone who disagrees with their doctrine an "apostate." This label prevents JWs from listening to opposing views even when it is obvious that they are wrong and the opposing view is correct. The whole child molestation tragedy is an example of this. As soon as you voiced disagreement you were categorized as having apostate leanings and this caused others to stop listening. This was something I could not stand and so I had to leave.
@Quendi - I agree that the JW leadership exercises great control over the rank and file. And I agree that to prosper in the JW world you have to let others do the thinking for you in every area of life. And while I am disappointed at the time lost to that way of life (30 years as a baptized Witness) and the negative impact it has had on my life (depression, suicidal thoughts and a suicide attempt), I feel that reason I stayed as I long as I did has more to do with ME than with THEM. My self-esteem was dependent on what my JW peers and family though of me. Until I was able to fall in love with myself and to love life itself my low self-esteem kept me imprisoned in that organization. Now that I am free, I feel the need to spend more time on myself, my values, my goals and my way of life. Living a truly happy life is what will keep me from going back. The JWs will never change. They will fizzle out and splinter out before that happens. But I can change, I have changed and I will continue to change...and this process is what I feel will benefit me the most in the long run.
Having said that Steve Hassan's book is on my list of books to read. However, the books I am reading now have more to do with ME and what I value than with THEM.
Do you feel me?
the easiest place to start understanding a spectral concept, such as cults, is to indentify it's lowest and highest points rather than starting somewhere in the middle.. so lets call the lowest point of the cult spectrum benign and the highest point destructive.. a good example of an extremely benign cult would be the following of the not so popular 80s movie: the princess bride of which i consider myself a member (no documentation .
if you were to come up to me and claim to be part of the princess bride's cult following i could figure out whether you are a true member by asking you a few questions.
based on your answers i could then conclude that you either meet the criteria or that you do not.
I get it. Due to the nature of my service with the JWs I knew when I left I could never, ever go back. They would make my life a living hell. I also know that I do not want to hand my rational mind over to any person or group of people ever again.
The Buddha expresses my new paradigm when it comes to any knowledge be it religious, philisophical or any other kind of knowledge: "“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
I guess you could say I am building my own system of values and beliefs. This board is helping me to do just that.
Thanks again! The journey continues...
