Here is the photo from the 1953 "New heavens and a new earth" that is on page 81.
Acluetofindtheuser
JoinedPosts by Acluetofindtheuser
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24
Snakes walked on legs till the Eden curse Watchtower belief till 1974!!
by Witness 007 inwatchtower 1964 page 352 "....before god cursed it the snake had legs that elevated it off the ground.
god transformed its body so that it ceased to have legs and could move on its belly.".
book "gods eternal purpose"1974 - "god did not put a curse on the whole serpent family...it had only been victimised by satan...".
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Snakes walked on legs till the Eden curse Watchtower belief till 1974!!
by Witness 007 inwatchtower 1964 page 352 "....before god cursed it the snake had legs that elevated it off the ground.
god transformed its body so that it ceased to have legs and could move on its belly.".
book "gods eternal purpose"1974 - "god did not put a curse on the whole serpent family...it had only been victimised by satan...".
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Acluetofindtheuser
There's a Watchtower illustration from the 1950s of the serpent as a sort of lizard.
The 1953 book titled, "New Heavens and a new earth" shows a lizard talking to Eve on page 81 in the chapter named, Corrupting of the righteous world. The creature is in the tree and is about 2 ft tall when sitting on its hind legs. The tail extends about 3 ft from its pelvis and wraps around the trunk of the tree. The lizard sits a little higher than eye level with Eve, I know all would rather see a scan of the picture but I don't want to ruin the book by forcing it open face for my scanner. I just bought it a few months ago on ebay.
In that same picture the image of Eve is rather risque showing her bare butt and side breast. I guess since it's a cartoon they had no problem with it. Another thing to note about this book is the Stegosaurus hanging out with a woolly mammoth and a couple of saber tooth tigers on page 60.
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Snakes walked on legs till the Eden curse Watchtower belief till 1974!!
by Witness 007 inwatchtower 1964 page 352 "....before god cursed it the snake had legs that elevated it off the ground.
god transformed its body so that it ceased to have legs and could move on its belly.".
book "gods eternal purpose"1974 - "god did not put a curse on the whole serpent family...it had only been victimised by satan...".
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Acluetofindtheuser
The question is, who was running the show in 1964 and then later in 1974 that did not like wild speculations?
They brought this subject up again in the June 15, 2007 watchtower in another question from readers. The title was, "Did the serpent that spoke to Eve have legs?" Here's the watchtower quote:
"The Bible does not specifically state that the animal used in tempting Eve had previously had legs but lost them. While the wording at Genesis 3:14 might lead some to think so, we need not necessarily conclude that prior to this curse, serpent had legs. Why not?"
Then they go on to explain in four paragraphs why this is not so. They did not mention in the article that the society used to believe that it once possessed limbs.
Anyway, look up the biology of the Boa and the Python and you'll see some weird facts.
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New Article - Birthdays, Why the Watchtower stance is wrong
by jwfacts ini have a new article at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/birthdays.php outlining why the watchtower stance against birthdays is wrong.
there have been a number of threads on jwn discussing this, and the article collates and summarises the points raised in these threads.
please feel free to point out any errors in grammar or logic.
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Acluetofindtheuser
The article on birthday celebrations by jwfacts was nicely written.
Another detail to add would be that birthdays would had to have been celebrated before and after the flood. A number of people mentioned in Genesis knew exactly when a person was born and died in the listing of the genealogies. That celebration would be the reminder of how old you were in the stream of time. We knew birthday details of Noah, Shem, Abraham and many more faithful people in early bible times because it mentions exactly when they died.
If God thought birthdays were evil he would have spelled it out the prohibition in the Mosaic Law. Since he did not do that then celebrating birthdays is not a sin and the jw leadership is presumptuous on God's thinking. One of the first kings of Israel was accused of presumptuousness by God and we knew what happened to him. God left him and would no longer give him divine instructions. Same thing has happened to the leadership in the jw religion.
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Jesus is a horse?
by Diogenesister injgnat posted this in one of punky's posts.
third century.
why is jesus portrayed as a horse, does anyone know please?.
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Acluetofindtheuser
I wonder if the graffiti has anything to do with the October Horse sacrifice ritual that is dedicated to Mars the Roman god of war.
On October 15 they have a two-horse chariot race and the winning horse that is on the right side is sacrificed. Its head and tail are removed and used in two different ceremonies. Two neighborhoods stage a fight for the right to display the head of the horse.
Romans did not eat horse meat and this is the only time a horse would be slaughtered. That would explain why there's a horse head laying around to be put over a man's head on a cross. It's the wrong month for Jesus crucifixion but it's still proof that the Romans were using the cross as a form of torture in the 3rd century, once again proving JW's wrong on another matter.
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Acluetofindtheuser
The contradictions in the bible to the WT teachings and the many failed predictions.
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1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
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Acluetofindtheuser
I think the clue to the end of it all is when Jesus is identified as the son of man. The apostles asked him the three questions while sitting on the mound of olives:
Matthew 24
1. When will these things be? - Throwing down of the physical temple.
2. Sign of your presence - Where he is not to be found anywhere but his influence is more like the lightning effect.
3. Conclusion of the system of things - When he comes as the son of man in the heavens and when the powers of the heavens are shaken.
Luke 17:22 records Jesus as saying this statement to his apostles, "Days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the son of man, but you will not see it."
My understanding from this scripture is that those who heard Jesus say these words will not be around when he comes in power as the son of man in his second coming. These people were alive when he ascended into the clouds but they never witness his return. I can only assume that word "generation" is not the right word to use in Matthew 24:34. it should be replaced with the term Jewish Nation. I guess this labels me an apologetic in trying to make sense of the bible. So be it.
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1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
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Acluetofindtheuser
Jesus was answering an Italian's, a gentil's question
I see no mention in any of the four gospels where Pilate the Italian gentile was told the statement by Jesus that he will come on the clouds of heaven in power on his return.
Matthew 26:57-65 said that Jesus was only before Caiaphas the high priest, the chief priests and the entire Sanhedrin when he said, "Jesus said to him [Ciaphas]: "You yourself said it. But I say to you: From now on you will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of of heaven."
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122
1995 generation change
by Gorb innow, many years later, i remember the 1995 generation change, very well.. since early youth, hearing my father explaining in field service the 2520 years.
it was his main theme in the field.. with the change my doubts started.
with some jw friends we did not trust the organization anymore.
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Acluetofindtheuser
Incidentally some Christadelphians read “this generation will not pass away until all these things occur” as meaning “this race of people will not pass away until all these things occur” referring to the Jews as a people now restored to Israel.
slimboyfat's comment above really got to me as a PIMO witness. The current generation teaching of the organization is bunk and makes no sense whats so ever. The Christadelphian view seems to correspond to another comment made by Jesus when he was on trial. When the high priest was trying to force Jesus' true identity the high priest convinced Jesus to say the following,"...From now on you will see the son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven." Since Jesus has not come back yet I understand this comment to mean that the Jews will still be around as a nation to see his his future return. The generation meaning has to be a group of people and not a time period.
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Most doubts aren't created by apostates. They are created in a Kingdom Hall.
by pistolpete ini found this interesting perspective on reddit.. post;.
i remember the moment the first real crack in my faith happened as a jehovah's witness.
i was sitting in the kingdom hall during the watchtower study where, as is common, the article was talking about how the israelites as a nation abandoned jehovah.. "but wait," i thought, "having a nation represent him here on earth was part of his plan.
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Acluetofindtheuser
Reading the bible and thinking for myself opened my eyes. A person can play dumb for only so long.