its been a while since ive been on how is everyone doing?
but just curious after you left jehovahs witnesses did you look into other religions?
or are any of you currently involved in any other religions now?.
Although out of WT, I remain a Christian and together with my wife, worship the God of the Bible.
We attended a Church for the sake of our children - That they may find companionship now and (perhaps) a mate from the Church in the future. We hope they'll marry Christians instead of people from other religions.
For us, we know that Jesus did not require us to be under any organization. Worship is with spirit and truth, not with an Organization.
hey all.. .
thought i'd introduce myself.. .
first, a disclaimer: i'm an athiest.. .
Dear Tuber,
There are many great advices before me. I like to contribute my $0.02.
1) I appear to me you're a reader and a knowledgeable person. You have already known both sides of the WT saga and are now ready to "infiltrate" WT. Personally, I think the best way is to become a "Bible Study".
The "wall" will collapse when you're their Bible Study. They will start the love bombing with you and do all things cult does, according to what you read in the recommended books.
You should not rush into pushing down their teachings. Let them become comfortable with you and "forgot" you're an atheist. Then, you bring out questions from their older publications.
One of the good books you may like to bring out is "You can live forever in Paradise on Earth". Those who study with JW in the 1980s will have this book. Another more "recent" book is the "Knowledge that leads to Everlasting Life". These books contain the teachings of "generation" as 70 or 80 years from 1914. They also have s few "subliminal images" (you may start from http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/3subliminalimages.html)
Generally speaking, the complete super-structure of WT doctrine rests on the year 1914. If it can be proven as false, then 1919 (anointed freed) is false, 1935 (Great Crowd teaching) is false, etc. (see their Revelation Climate book).
You need a lot of discretion to bring up those doctrines. WT is trying to bury this past. 1914 doctrine is fading away. Simply putting, the importance of it is no longer stressed and is less used in recent publications. Hence, many will believe in Anointed without linking to 1919, the Great Crowd without 1935, ... etc and 1914 will eventually lost in significant in the next 5 years (I think).
Hence, bringing up this date may result in Elders querying your motives and start to probe you for its origin. Once you got "expose" for visiting sites like this one, you'll say good bye to your efforts and your family. So please be careful.
While I recommend you to become their "Bible Study", please do not get baptize. They cannot disfellowship you if you're not baptized and hence cannot officially shun you.
Also, be careful of their teachings. WT is very "convincing" in its words. It takes a person with logic to notice its teachings are based on "circular reasoning", "begging the question", and other fallacies. So if you have a doubt during your study, raise them here. Many will be able to help you see the truth behind "the truth".
Finally, should I say, "God bless your effort" or "Good luck with your venture" to you? Either case, take care.
PD
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Dear southern.finesse,
Having to "break up" with my wife was the greatest thing in my mind before I made the decision to leave WT. I read a lot during that time before I "jump" into the formality with her. (To date, I'm glad she left WT with me.)
I like to share some pointers I had used. Hopefully, you can benefit from this:
1) Recognize that the more you go against her, the more she'll be convinced you're from Satan. So please do not confront WT nor its teachings with her directly. You'll only distance yourself from her.
Rather, keep your comments little with regards WT and JW as an organization. Be diplomatic with you need to voice things out. Keep it to a sentence, at most two. Don't involved in an argument. Remember, she's suffering from cognitive dissonance. She's particularly sensitive to your comments.
On the negative note, she challenges you. On the positive note, she actually listens and takes to heart. So prepare punch lines that will sink right into her. In time, she'll feel the effects.
2) WT and JW Org has labeled you "unwholesome". If you treat her the same way WT pictures you, then you've fulfilled "WT prophecies".
Show her love as a husband.
Try NOT to end in intimacy unless it's her calling. Remember, WT indirectly painted a negative picture regarding sexual intimacy. So the more you can hold back this needs, the better. Let her be the one to initiate it.
Care for your children.
She'll not appreciate your monetary contribution. (Housing, car, food on the table, ... is a requirement from you. She'll partake them all, then curse you behind your back among her JW "sisters".)
Read Bible with your children instead. Use the NWT. Get her to be in the Bible Reading sessions. Let her know its Bible reading. "Nothing to do with religion". Use WT lingo with her. Argue that since you're not an Elder, you cannot teach using WT magazines. So you can only read from the Bible, as this is your God-Given responsibility. Quote the scriptures. Use NWT Bible. Use WT to support you.
3) Works, not words. Do things that make WT commentary looks silly. WT stereotyped everyone outside JW Org. So you're a fornicator, an idolater, a smoker, a gambler, ... in short, a good-for-nothing man. Proof yourself otherwise. First, do not become as any mentioned here. Then, show her attitudes required of an Elder and Ministerial Servant (qualifications listed in the Bible).
Over a period of time (took me ten years), she can compare you with someone "respectable". Listen carefully for these names and find out more about them. (If need to, go to the KH with her to know about these people). Remember, it takes a hypocrite to become an Elder. You will definitely find loopholes in their "love", "kindness", and best of all "humility". If that Elder told you his best quality is "humility", then he's the one that is least humble.
Exploit these. Bring out these points subtly. The higher the Elder's rank, the better. (It took a DO to break my wife's faith.) Bring them into your family association and build issues for them to solve. Let you wife see the hypocrisy they manifest.
The time will come when she cannot contain the "pain" generated by her cognitive dissonance. She'll break. You'll be good enough to bring her out then.
Pray hard. And may the grace of God be with you always.
PD
i'm in love with a girl that is not so active in the witnesse and since i moved to germany she is in vancouver, we only talk though facebook.
i don't know to break the ice to her that i'm no longer a jw, i really do love her and her personailty and etc.
i don't know what to do i send her a post card and told her anytimes she is in europe to tell me i will fly out to everwhere she is to meet up.
I fully agree with @Black Sheep and @VampireDCLXV
I know it’s hard if it were to fail, have you think of methods to “hint” to her you’re out of WT?
You may not want to burp out your status with WT in one statement. How about express “positive concern” regarding certain issues you think she might be able to help resolve? For example, ask her to explain the latest “generation” understanding. Then bring out an older publication like “You Can Live Forever In Paradise on Earth”. Voice concern why the 80 years from 1914 was changed. That’s all. To avoid being label an “Apostate”, do not accuse WT, yet.
Of course, there are many more issues. I personally like the photo of the pyramid of CT Russell. Very few people in the 20 th century have the “privilege” to be buried under one. Also, I like the “subliminal photos” in the “Knowledge” book. That made my wife realize how Satanic WT is and prepared her for our departure together.
I think you’re able to gather more materials for yourself. I know it’s hard to face a breakup. But I think the risk is worth taking. Perhaps you might be successful in saving her. Otherwise it’s easier to bear now, than to hide your secret and marry her, only to generate greater heartbreak in the future.
Sorry to be so blunt.
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Dear pubtruth,
I think many here have expressed sufficiently on what you should or should not do.
I can fully agreed on the following and I hope you can exploit it to a benefit: Help your mum (I believe she is still an active JW).
1) Do not get baptized
2) Do not get involved with the Elders anymore. “Shun” them like how they would you eventually. So if they are at the door, don’t answer. If they call, don’t answer. If they write, don’t reply. If you are easily “motivated” with words by them, don’t even read their letters.
At the meantime, please do not think of becoming an atheist. This is precisely what WT paints everyone leaving to be – someone who had forsaken God. Yes, this is just another device of Satan. So please do not fall for it. Your eternal future means a lot to God.
Try to read the Bible daily, even if it’s just for 30 minutes. Invite your mum to read with you without WT articles. Pray with her. Let her know you love her still. You just hate the diabolical WT. Invite her to know God better along side you.
I think you have enough “WT Facts”. Why not try gaining Bible facts now? Go to Christian web sites that can increase your faith toward God. Sites I personally benefited from are www.GotQuestions.org and http://bible.org. Try visiting them and strengthen your spirituality. Invite your mum to join you. Otherwise, print out the materials you think she can benefit from.
Leaving WT is not an easy task because of the mental symptom called “cognitive dissonance”. But with careful planning and efforts to lessen the shunning effects, both you and your mum can leave eventually. Don’t forget the power of prayers. It’s something many rely upon heavily during their final days in WT and afterward.
May the peace of God be with you always. Amen.
PD
well, as i mentioned before in one of my few other posts, i've been lurking here for some time now and finally decided it was time to face the facts and take action.. i was raised a jw (4th generation) and my parents were quite zealous when they got married.
mom was a regular pioneer and dad was a ms. i was the little jw 'rockstar' in my congregation, got baptized at 10, was giving talks and serving as an attendant at the hall and at conventions at such an early age.
auxiliary pioneered whenever i could.
Congratulations! You've made a wise decision.
Just concern... Have you thought about the "consequences" you're going to face? The shunning and such? Are you prepared? How?
Would like to hear from you. (To be honest, it took me about a year to fade. During this time, I secure all that I can, my wife, my children and one of two JWs that stands a possibility to fade with me. Today, I'm happy my family leaves WT with me intact, and a possibility the JWs will eventually leave.)
Just my concern: It's definitely a wise decision to leave. But please plan carefully so that the lost is manageable.
in the past 2 weeks i have driven 4200 miles... from ma to va to switch cars with my son...to fl to pick up my daughter and 3 grandkids...to the outer banks of nc... where we stayed for a week....back to fl to drop off my daughter and 2 of the grandkids.. (aubrey came back to spend a month with me) ....to va to switch cars back... to ma.
got home last night.... here are the kids in the back seat during the trip back to orlando from the outer banks.. .
had a blast.... we shared a house with friends and family.
You make me envy for one already....
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dear readers of jwn,.
im less than a week here and have read a few articles.
Currently, I know a twin Sisters who are both ex-JWs actively assisting those who are ready to leave WT.
1) A lot of such ones are on the Internet, posting queries. We who are out of WT and had rebuilt our lives can be of help to them, both through our concern and our loving comments.
2) Not all JW will fully follow WT "command" to shun us, especially those facing ongoing calamity and the initial "keep warm and well fed" period has past. My wife and I had tried visiting them. They had received us warmly. I hope some day we can help them break free from WT .
3) If you have joined a Church, you are in a good position to teach your fellow Church friends how to deal with JW at the door. Advice them not to slam the door, nor fear their presence. On the contrary, get your friends to offer topics that will get JW into thinking process after they leave. E.g. showing interest in the history of WT, especially the days of CT Russell (why is he buried under a pyramid that is viewable from Google Earth?), JF Rutherford, and 1975 will get the JW into research. Also, remember arguing about doctrine is usually not the best way to convince JW to leave WT. Rather, showing love to them will. This is because WT painted the picture that all "in the world" are loveless. But their ability to see love in action will proof WT wrong/bias about many people. (Aren’t we living examples of such?)
4) Sometimes we meet JW on the street. Familiar faces. Greet them. Tell them "I love you guys", “We’re praying for you”. You're not under WT "commandments". Show them your current life is happier and more meaningful. My wife told me what happened the last time we smiled at the Elder that DF us (who also smiled back). After we walked a distance, my wife peeked back. She told me he looked depressed, staring at the dried goods (we're at a shopping mall). I believe my "Apostate Materials" regarding CT Russell's pyramid has some effect on him. (He has to read them to tell me they’re “Apostate Materials” and use them against us.)
Well, these are some experiences I had tried and if you have more, please post them. Let’s try to device more ways that can help saved those we love from WT.
dear all,.
i'm new here and this is my first post.
i hope to introduce myself in order to gain more friends online.. to begin, i'm middleage and has just left wt with my family intact (praise god for that).
Hello and Hello to so many of you replying,
Finally managed to change my Avatar. That’s the photo of my eldest son, taken about 8 years ago. My twin sons (third and forth, now 2+) look almost like him. I’ll change to their photos in the future.
You know, many of your comments/bio showed me one thing – Love still exist in this world . Glad to know ex-elders. I was never appointed to MS and am fortunate. Otherwise I wonder how much a hypocrite I’ll become. But thanks to God, my eyes were opened to such.
And to @Quandry, I came from a country where WT is banned. Hence, many, including our parents, do not know about JW. All they can associate is “they are all Christians”. Finding out the difference is outside their concern, as they’re all Buddhists. Hence out exiting WT is just “moving from one church to another”.
For the past months, I have been doing a lot of research and readings. Accompanied by my average knowledge of the Bible (I read it many times in Prison due to Military issue), I quickly able to distinguish the difference between WT teachings and Church doctrines. In addition, I can reason with many articles on the Internet which of the two is the more accurate understanding. Very importantly, I can now fully understand the way WT mind-control JWs worldwide. Looking at it, I actually feel sorry for those JWs in my area, including the Elders whom I called hypocrites.
Anyway, WT is behind us now. We’re rebuilding our family bonds, and also adapting to our new Church services and fellowship. Happy to know that there are so many who had walked the path we are take now. Do share your love and experience with us freely.
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dear readers of jwn,.
im less than a week here and have read a few articles.
Dear Readers of JWN,
I’m less than a week here and have read a few articles. It appears that many of you here has a noble intention to assist JW who are still in WT. I raise this thread to discuss how we can help them as Christians.
First, I like to encourage depressed ones here, please do not become an atheist or agnostic. In fact, I almost became one. I told the CO once: “If I left, I’ll become an agnostic”. But thanks to God, I remain a Christian, and a much better one because of the help and encouragement I received from other ex-JWs. If you need such help, please raise threads about your concerns. I’m sure many will be ready to assist.
Now back to my point: Theocratic War Strategies to free JW from WT
Let me begin with what I think is best:
1) Do not be angry at JWs, particularly the Elders. But instead show them the love of God. Remember that they too were misled by WT and are currently under her spell (being mind-control).
Scripture: (I’ll quote from NWT unless otherwise stated) Matthew 5:46 “For if YOU love those loving YOU, what reward do YOU have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47 And if YOU greet YOUR brothers only, what extraordinary thing are YOU doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? 48 YOU must accordingly be perfect, as YOUR heavenly Father is perfect.”
Yes, dear Christian Brothers and Sisters, let’s become “perfect” like our dear Father in the heavens. The tax collecting Elders tells all their rank-and-file NOT to greet us. But we, admonished by our Lord Jesus to do otherwise. By greeting the poor-souled JWs who hated us for no real cause, we’re doing the extraordinary thing of “love” unknown to them. Continuous rejections many make us feel dejected. But have faith that the impact of our love for them will be the eventual force for “sheep-like” ones to leave WT.
2) Overcome the fear WT has instilled into us.
Scripture: 1 John 4:18 “There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love.
19 As for us, we love, because he first loved us.
20 If anyone makes the statement: “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also.”
Yes, we need to constantly pray to God that we be freed from the WT “fear”. Such fear caused our love for God to become imperfect. A perfect love is unselfish and is only concern with things good and chaste, kind and compassionate. We received all these from God. Since He loved us first, we should learn such love and show JW worldwide such magnificent love God has given us.
(vs 20) Without a doubt, we can see clearly JW has fall short of God’s love. But let’s not be judgmental over them. Rather, proof to Christ we are true Christians. Proof to God we are His children. Love the JW who hated us. Show God we’re not liars. We love those whom we can see. In this way, there stands a real chance for us to love Him, who we cannot see. (Thanks to Jesus. Such faith is possible and with it, we can approach God and be accepted by Him.)
These are my two cents contribution. May more brothers and sisters contribute to this “Theocratic War Strategies” so that we can see how we can more effectively show our love to JWs worldwide.
PD
