Posts by partydelights

160

I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses

by PenelopePaige in

jw
friends

hi- i just wanted to say that i have been checking the website out for a few weeks and have read some horror stories and some sad ones.

but i have been studying with witnessess for about six months and can't help but feel that they're completely sincere and maybe even, the true religion.

i love the watchtower and awake and to me, none of that seems crazy.

partydelights

Dear PenelopePaige and Concerned JW,

Frankly speaking, I do not want to criticize much about WT because I have come to accept it as a religion that is going to stay on this earth for a very long time, much like the Muslims, the Buddhists, etc.

Firstly, I like to clarify that I read the Bible cover-to-cover 7 times in Prison, not 3 times. There is no need to sympathize me for my “neutrality stand”. I did not do it for WT. In fact I was a BS when I took up the stand. I did it for God. I did it because I want to tell let all know, this is the way I show love to them. Nothing to do with WT. In fact, I did not even know WT had so much control over JW. (Most BS does not know the relationships between WT and JW. In my mind then, WT was just the printing arm of JW . Of course, today, I know, JW is the distribution arm of WT .)

Next, please know that I’m not the debating type. If you truly want to know what I want to tell about “Faithful and Discrete slave” and the Galatians as one of misquoted scripture to separate the anointed from the Great Crowd, please PM me. I don’t wish to bore my fellow friends here with doctrinal debates they so well acquainted. (I know Concerned JW, there are plenty of scriptures WT used – Revelation, Jesus parable of the sheepfold, etc, etc. And of course, if you buy that WT junk, the entire Isaiah spoke about them! Of course, the only person ever spoke of the Law and Prophets fulfilled upon is Jesus, and he is the Way, the Truth and the Life. This I believe. )

It’s up to you to believe WT’s advertisement that we need WT guidance to know the Bible truth. As far as I understand, there are enough faithful worshippers of God before CT Russell the Manson. Don’t tell me all those before Russell are condemned and illiterate of the Bible. Let’s face it. Plenty of WT and Awake quotations (or mis-quotation) come from the Church fathers.

I did not use my credentials of Bible reading to establish my knowledge of Bible truths. However, I dare say it’s the Holy Spirit that helps me (and many more before me as well as plenty in my lifetime) understand them. Read your Bible. If you want scriptures, PM me. As I mentioned, I’m not here to debate. I’m not here to ask any to trust me or follow what I say. I’m just stating the Truth in a nutshell and hence avoid lengthily scriptural quotations.

Finally, I like you to know, my wife and I did not leave WT because of sin on our part. Rather, WT made a mistake that ruined our lives for 10 years . Although mistakes were at the court of WT, the only thing we got from the DO is “Sorry” during a recent private “shepherding visit”. It was a 15 years fight for the sake of Divine Justice and Righteousness. All we asked is to be reinstated as Pioneers and the answer was “not possible”. So we know. It’s not the name of Jehovah that is utmost importance to WT. It’s the name of WT . Hence we left.

Regard Bible Study and understanding, Penelope, effort is needed on your part. Instead of setting aside 1 to 2 hours a week studying the 30 plus doctrines of WT (yes, evaluate carefully, it is possible to enumerate ALL the teachings of WT), use this time to read the Bible and research from the Internet or from Christian books. I know it’s a sad thing many in the Church are not well acquainted with the Bible. However, if you look into a neighborhood “Evangelical Church” like the Methodist, Anglican, etc, you may find more meaningful Bible studies.

Remember: Because WT doctrines in limited to around 30 primary dogmas, it is possible to make those look like a “well satisfying spiritual food”. However, many over here can testify, that after 10 years, there’s really nothing much. The Church, however, do not constrain to just the few dogmas of WT. There are plenty of views from many angles for any scriptures. In fact, mathematically, there are possible billions of understandings from the complete Bible. With such, it does not really matter if you know it all. In fact it’s impossible. But if you can glean the truth that makes you a true servant of Christ, and enough principle to make you happy this lifetime, then I think you have benefit from the Bible.

To conclude, I like to share a scripture with you, Penelope. I discussed it with my wife yesterday during our “Personal Bible Reading” session. 1 Corinthians 13:8-13

“But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.”

Notice here, WT criticizes the Church speaking in “tongues”, made false “prophecies”, but today, I like to voice out, knowledge too comes in equal weightage as “tongues” and “prophecies”.

Then my wife made a very good point: All those “knowledge” of WT, “tongue and Prophecies” of the Churches, aren’t they all “childish” according to the scripture? My answer was, indeed! Knowledge simply puff up, tongue if not use properly simply gives people ere feelings, prophecies when applied wrongly simply breaks another’s faith.

But then, the last verse:

“13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.”

Yes, it doesn’t matter whether WT is right is her knowledge or not. It doesn’t matter the tongue and prophecies benefits or not, God is not really interested in these. Rather, what God wanted from all His children are

1) Faith in his Son Jesus (particularly his death and sacrifice)

2) Hope in the future, that under His arrangement is going to be perfect and grand

3) Love, yes, that all Christians (even mankind) should love one another and all should come to love Him as the true God and Creator.

Aren’t such principles much more worthy of consideration, than running the path of a cult that destroys lifes?

PD

PS: You're now a BS, Penelop. So any doctrinal "objection" is OK. But once you becomes a baptized JW, you MUST accept that ONLY 144,000 goes to heaven. Otherwise, to "hell" you'll go, like most of us here...

PPS: Sorry for the late reply. My side of the earth is GMT/UTC +8. So you might be sleeping when I'm awake, and vice versa.

40

My Wedding Photos are. . .

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

chock full of jehovah's witnesses.

with the exception of my wife and my best man, they're all jws.

jws who probably despise me.

partydelights

Hey, tomorrow's your 10th Anniversary? Congratulations!

... and don't touch your PC tomorrow... there's more hokey pokey things to do live than virtual.....

16

AN OPEN LETTER TO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

by hubert in

jw
friends

every year i like to bring up this letter for the "newbies" on this forum.. i found it very true, and right to the point.. thanks again, gaila noble.. hubert.

an open letter to jehovah's witnesses.

you may not remember, but i know you very well.

partydelights

Dear hubert,

Of all things, love is something that cannot be replaced. However, finding new friends do help. For my wife and I, we know it's useless to dwell in the past. Likewise, it's meaningless to hope that things can change for the better. Nevertheless, we decided to move forward and conquer this feeling created by Satan and his organization.

Of all things, love is something that cannot be replaced. Hence we make it our life to look for new friends. We greet all our neighbors. We let our children play with their kids. We visited Churches. We join their concerts and fund-rasing programmes. Of course, we joined their worship.

Of all things, love is something that cannot be replaced. So to win friends, we become friends ourselves. We invite our new-found friends to dine with us. We open our thoughts with them. Among Church friends, we tell them our JW experiences. In a matter of months, we are free from the burden of loneliness.

Of all things, love is something that cannot be replaced. You'll still think about all your loved ones. Turn these thoughts into prayers. Request the pastors to pray for them. Send them your love. They're simply blinded by the "illumination" of Satan. However, if your love for them is felt, their blindness might be restored. Best wishes that you be blessed with your love again.

Of all things, love is something that cannot be replaced. But perhaps if you don't mind. Would you care have my wife and I as your new friends to love? We surely needs this love because we too were shun badly. 20 years of WT slavery has devoid us of all "worldly friends". Do allow us to pour our heart to you and give us a listening ear. So if you choose to love us, PM me and perhaps we can exchange email address.

PD

160

I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses

by PenelopePaige in

jw
friends

hi- i just wanted to say that i have been checking the website out for a few weeks and have read some horror stories and some sad ones.

but i have been studying with witnessess for about six months and can't help but feel that they're completely sincere and maybe even, the true religion.

i love the watchtower and awake and to me, none of that seems crazy.

partydelights

Dear PenelopePaige

Run. Never look back.

If you want to understand the Bible, 1) pray for God's holy spirit for guidance 2) Read it cover-to-cover many times 3) research on the Internet. You can even ask questions here and many will be glad to answer them.

You don't need WT to understand the Bible. In fact, WT will stunt your spiritual growth. Many found out decades too late and became athiests or agnostics. Others like my prison friend, broke down into Schizophrenia.

While Concerned JW tries to paint a beautiful WT facade, those others here tells the brutal truth of WT nightmare. So well wishes and take care.

PD

160

I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses

by PenelopePaige in

jw
friends

hi- i just wanted to say that i have been checking the website out for a few weeks and have read some horror stories and some sad ones.

but i have been studying with witnessess for about six months and can't help but feel that they're completely sincere and maybe even, the true religion.

i love the watchtower and awake and to me, none of that seems crazy.

partydelights

@Concerned JW

“Everything witnesses believe can be examined against the Bible as to whether they are correct or not. This is what you would do with any Christian faith therefore not a closed forum. Your perfection argument is faulty because it requires that some group are perfect now which is impossible according to the bible. People look for bible truth it is upto you to decide which group has it in this time. It is Jehovah and his word the Bible we make our commitment too as Witnesses. Jesus gave this commision to the Appostles (imperfect men) onwards to this time to gather together God's people under biblical command.”

Before proceeding with the words “examined against the Bible”, I like to know how many times have you read the Bible cover-to-cover without using any WT articles. When God commanded the wittings of His word, he first used Moses to pen them down, and then more writers were added. All these with what purpose? That man was to read them. Nowhere did God mentioned of a specific group of people who has the absolute rights to interpret the scriptures.

(“Faithful and discrete slave” dogma is just a WT slogan to support WT doctrines. Outside WT, no such teaching exists.)

Personally, I took up the “neutrality stand” and was sentenced to 3 years prison. Hence I have the opportunity to read the Bible cover-to-cover at least 7 times in two languages without WT articles. These readings made it easy for me to leave WT because I can detect out-of-context quotations of the Bible. For example, the common scripture to support “anointed” ones that called out “abba. Father” (Galatians 4:6). Instead of just reading that verse, why not read the complete chapter 4 and 5. Do it. You will realize Paul was telling all Christians to reap the fruit of God’s holy spirit against the works of the flesh. Don’t tell me only 144,000 need to do so while the rest of the Great Crowd need not. Otherwise, the same scripture applies to all.

Imperfection is fact for all children of Adam. However, please do not apply it to God’s representative, especially His Organization. While Christ died for all mankind, Christ did not die for any human institution, including the nation of Israel and modern day Watch Tower Society. So please do not use “imperfection” as an excuse for all the false prophecies made, all the broken families, all the blood-related deaths, all the abused (molested) children, ….

For me, I studied “You can live Forever in Paradise on Earth”. The most frightening was Armageddon to come in the generation of 1914. The book told me those people were very old already. So based on a generation being 70 or 80 years, that grace period ends in early 1995. So what am I suppose to do today? God told me: “You must not get frightened at him.” (Deut 18:20-22)

Finally, are you a person that judge based on one-sided story? Will you shun an ex-JW without knowing why that person is DF/FA? Why not do it this way. Ask the Elders why a person is DF/FA. (Of course you’ll not get an answer from them.) Ask also the person. This is the same principle WT employed when touching on religion. The best person to answer why he’s spoken against is himself. (I disagree though. Both sides of the stories should be considered.)

While I agree there are many DF/DA because of breaking a direct law of God, there are also many who did not. For example, those who cannot agree with WT doctrines, those who were falsely judged, those who were judged but later discovered a mistake had been made, … Interestingly, the latest Elders’ secret book forbids mixing with DF/DA. Those who are warned but repeatedly mixing with DF/DA is liable for judicial themselves. What is WT trying to hide? (Is trying to protect the flock really the case? Is you spiritual interest really the top concern of WT? Or is the interest of WT the utmost concern? This forum answers my questions.)

Note: If only a handful of hundreds says something against 7 million, then their words might be doubtful. But what if there are close to a million speaking against the 7 million professed JWs? Doesn’t a Concerned JW like you should look into the fact or fiction of these claims?

PS: I’m in no way against you, Concerned JW. I was a “walking Bible” in my days as a JW. But today, I saw enough of WT and hence hope you soon can see as we do. While you may deem us as enemies by WT standard, rest assured my love and prayers goes with you. Well wishes.

PD

40

Did you fake underlining the WT?

by shepherd in

jw
friends

i read on another topic " i remember when i used to carry microphones years ago in the jw cult- only about 30 % had their wt's pre-studied, the rest just wing it i truly believe" and it reminded me that people will assume you are not familiar with the material if you have not underlined, and that there will always be those who observe the lack of ink and consider you must be unprepared (and so 'weaker' than them).. many times i used to fake prestudy just for that reason.

its easy to do, underline a random sentence or 2 in each paragraph or the sited scripture.

you can wizz through an entire article in 3 minutes....did anyone else do that?.

partydelights

I don't underline WT. (In fact, I don't underline any material I read.)

As many has commented, WT is just too easy. Always ends in three things: Personal study, Meeting Attendance and Field Service.

So, to "show off", just make sure the answers eventually lead to those points will do. Otherwise, comment on the scriptures. (I have a Bible that I'm very familiar with and flipping scriptures takes about 10 seconds each.) Just read the sacripture, then apply to the paragraph. And you know the paragraph ALWAYS repeats old stuffs. So with WT for close to 20 years (since the days of being a BS), there's indeed nothing new under the WT "sun".

46

what religion are you now?

by deservingone26 in

jw
friends

its been a while since ive been on how is everyone doing?

but just curious after you left jehovahs witnesses did you look into other religions?

or are any of you currently involved in any other religions now?.

partydelights

Although out of WT, I remain a Christian and together with my wife, worship the God of the Bible.

We attended a Church for the sake of our children - That they may find companionship now and (perhaps) a mate from the Church in the future. We hope they'll marry Christians instead of people from other religions.

For us, we know that Jesus did not require us to be under any organization. Worship is with spirit and truth, not with an Organization.

98

New here

by Tuber in

jw
friends

hey all.. .

thought i'd introduce myself.. .

first, a disclaimer: i'm an athiest.. .

partydelights

Dear Tuber,

There are many great advices before me. I like to contribute my $0.02.

1) I appear to me you're a reader and a knowledgeable person. You have already known both sides of the WT saga and are now ready to "infiltrate" WT. Personally, I think the best way is to become a "Bible Study".

The "wall" will collapse when you're their Bible Study. They will start the love bombing with you and do all things cult does, according to what you read in the recommended books.

You should not rush into pushing down their teachings. Let them become comfortable with you and "forgot" you're an atheist. Then, you bring out questions from their older publications.

One of the good books you may like to bring out is "You can live forever in Paradise on Earth". Those who study with JW in the 1980s will have this book. Another more "recent" book is the "Knowledge that leads to Everlasting Life". These books contain the teachings of "generation" as 70 or 80 years from 1914. They also have s few "subliminal images" (you may start from http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/3subliminalimages.html)

Generally speaking, the complete super-structure of WT doctrine rests on the year 1914. If it can be proven as false, then 1919 (anointed freed) is false, 1935 (Great Crowd teaching) is false, etc. (see their Revelation Climate book).

Caution

You need a lot of discretion to bring up those doctrines. WT is trying to bury this past. 1914 doctrine is fading away. Simply putting, the importance of it is no longer stressed and is less used in recent publications. Hence, many will believe in Anointed without linking to 1919, the Great Crowd without 1935, ... etc and 1914 will eventually lost in significant in the next 5 years (I think).

Hence, bringing up this date may result in Elders querying your motives and start to probe you for its origin. Once you got "expose" for visiting sites like this one, you'll say good bye to your efforts and your family. So please be careful.

Final Words

While I recommend you to become their "Bible Study", please do not get baptize. They cannot disfellowship you if you're not baptized and hence cannot officially shun you.

Also, be careful of their teachings. WT is very "convincing" in its words. It takes a person with logic to notice its teachings are based on "circular reasoning", "begging the question", and other fallacies. So if you have a doubt during your study, raise them here. Many will be able to help you see the truth behind "the truth".

Finally, should I say, "God bless your effort" or "Good luck with your venture" to you? Either case, take care.

PD

33

There Goes My Wife. . . .

by southern.finesse in

jw
friends

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partydelights

Dear southern.finesse,

Having to "break up" with my wife was the greatest thing in my mind before I made the decision to leave WT. I read a lot during that time before I "jump" into the formality with her. (To date, I'm glad she left WT with me.)

I like to share some pointers I had used. Hopefully, you can benefit from this:

1) Recognize that the more you go against her, the more she'll be convinced you're from Satan. So please do not confront WT nor its teachings with her directly. You'll only distance yourself from her.

Rather, keep your comments little with regards WT and JW as an organization. Be diplomatic with you need to voice things out. Keep it to a sentence, at most two. Don't involved in an argument. Remember, she's suffering from cognitive dissonance. She's particularly sensitive to your comments.

On the negative note, she challenges you. On the positive note, she actually listens and takes to heart. So prepare punch lines that will sink right into her. In time, she'll feel the effects.

2) WT and JW Org has labeled you "unwholesome". If you treat her the same way WT pictures you, then you've fulfilled "WT prophecies".

Show her love as a husband.

Try NOT to end in intimacy unless it's her calling. Remember, WT indirectly painted a negative picture regarding sexual intimacy. So the more you can hold back this needs, the better. Let her be the one to initiate it.

Care for your children.

She'll not appreciate your monetary contribution. (Housing, car, food on the table, ... is a requirement from you. She'll partake them all, then curse you behind your back among her JW "sisters".)

Read Bible with your children instead. Use the NWT. Get her to be in the Bible Reading sessions. Let her know its Bible reading. "Nothing to do with religion". Use WT lingo with her. Argue that since you're not an Elder, you cannot teach using WT magazines. So you can only read from the Bible, as this is your God-Given responsibility. Quote the scriptures. Use NWT Bible. Use WT to support you.

3) Works, not words. Do things that make WT commentary looks silly. WT stereotyped everyone outside JW Org. So you're a fornicator, an idolater, a smoker, a gambler, ... in short, a good-for-nothing man. Proof yourself otherwise. First, do not become as any mentioned here. Then, show her attitudes required of an Elder and Ministerial Servant (qualifications listed in the Bible).

Over a period of time (took me ten years), she can compare you with someone "respectable". Listen carefully for these names and find out more about them. (If need to, go to the KH with her to know about these people). Remember, it takes a hypocrite to become an Elder. You will definitely find loopholes in their "love", "kindness", and best of all "humility". If that Elder told you his best quality is "humility", then he's the one that is least humble.

Exploit these. Bring out these points subtly. The higher the Elder's rank, the better. (It took a DO to break my wife's faith.) Bring them into your family association and build issues for them to solve. Let you wife see the hypocrisy they manifest.

The time will come when she cannot contain the "pain" generated by her cognitive dissonance. She'll break. You'll be good enough to bring her out then.

Pray hard. And may the grace of God be with you always.

PD

15

I'm in love with a not so active witness

by Snowboarder in

jw
friends

i'm in love with a girl that is not so active in the witnesse and since i moved to germany she is in vancouver, we only talk though facebook.

i don't know to break the ice to her that i'm no longer a jw, i really do love her and her personailty and etc.

i don't know what to do i send her a post card and told her anytimes she is in europe to tell me i will fly out to everwhere she is to meet up.

partydelights

I fully agree with @Black Sheep and @VampireDCLXV

I know it’s hard if it were to fail, have you think of methods to “hint” to her you’re out of WT?

You may not want to burp out your status with WT in one statement. How about express “positive concern” regarding certain issues you think she might be able to help resolve? For example, ask her to explain the latest “generation” understanding. Then bring out an older publication like “You Can Live Forever In Paradise on Earth”. Voice concern why the 80 years from 1914 was changed. That’s all. To avoid being label an “Apostate”, do not accuse WT, yet.

Of course, there are many more issues. I personally like the photo of the pyramid of CT Russell. Very few people in the 20 th century have the “privilege” to be buried under one. Also, I like the “subliminal photos” in the “Knowledge” book. That made my wife realize how Satanic WT is and prepared her for our departure together.

I think you’re able to gather more materials for yourself. I know it’s hard to face a breakup. But I think the risk is worth taking. Perhaps you might be successful in saving her. Otherwise it’s easier to bear now, than to hide your secret and marry her, only to generate greater heartbreak in the future.

Sorry to be so blunt.