thank you flyinghighnow for reminding us of Fernando's intentions. I have been sitting here for half and hour wondering how to reply to questions that have been directed to me and that I would like to expand on but the problem is that one has to first point out where there is a misunderstanding or a misreading and after that to aks is the intention just to paint believers as stupid victims or not? I don't have the patience of tec or aguest so have decided not to reply for now and let Fernando come in first to direct how he wants the thread to proceed.
soft+gentle
JoinedPosts by soft+gentle
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187
What is with abusive atheists?
by Fernando insorry folks, i know the "candace conti case" is where all our time attention should be for now.
i just had this much less important issue on my heart and wanted to make a quick note of it, as i am struggling with remembering all the details as clearly afterward.. although i am a non-religious believer and simple follower of jesus, i have had some constructive interaction with atheists and agnostics on jwn.
i do enjoy learning more about their perspective.
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187
What is with abusive atheists?
by Fernando insorry folks, i know the "candace conti case" is where all our time attention should be for now.
i just had this much less important issue on my heart and wanted to make a quick note of it, as i am struggling with remembering all the details as clearly afterward.. although i am a non-religious believer and simple follower of jesus, i have had some constructive interaction with atheists and agnostics on jwn.
i do enjoy learning more about their perspective.
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soft+gentle
cofty I wholeheartedly agree with you that reason and rationality devoid of feeling doesn't do it for anybody. However I did not invent this emphasis on reason and rationality. A long line of thinkers did (Plato, aristotle, descartes etc). Indeed we would not have the scientific method if early thinkers had not set out on this trajectory - to give pre-eminence to reason whilst simultaneously demoting feeling that is. But when reason is used as a foundation for all other truths and posited as foundational for all reality then we run into the problem of depicting faith in the way qcmbr does above.
qcmbr - I can't help but think that you are venting a diatribe against faith. Taking your first point: Seeing oneself as subservient and as not whole is not suggestive of being a victim. I would agree that in a JW type religion when people are silenced and taken advantage of together with being rendered subservient and imperfect that they are victimised. But on the other hand if a person is acknowledging that they are not stand alone entities and that they are in receipt of and in need of external influences then they are not that far away from an atheist who acknowledges that he owes his good fortune to living in a secular society under a government that provides him with securities that enable him to be independent and to realise his potential. (This is not meant to deny that the believer has something more than materiality or that the athiest likewise has something more than materiality).
edit: qcmbr I will come back to your other points when I have a little more time
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187
What is with abusive atheists?
by Fernando insorry folks, i know the "candace conti case" is where all our time attention should be for now.
i just had this much less important issue on my heart and wanted to make a quick note of it, as i am struggling with remembering all the details as clearly afterward.. although i am a non-religious believer and simple follower of jesus, i have had some constructive interaction with atheists and agnostics on jwn.
i do enjoy learning more about their perspective.
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soft+gentle
I hope this thread doesn't turn into poop throwing as I feel Fernando has raised a valid issue that is worth exploring. Also Guys please name posters you are quoting as it is quite hard to follow the discussion otherwise.
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187
What is with abusive atheists?
by Fernando insorry folks, i know the "candace conti case" is where all our time attention should be for now.
i just had this much less important issue on my heart and wanted to make a quick note of it, as i am struggling with remembering all the details as clearly afterward.. although i am a non-religious believer and simple follower of jesus, i have had some constructive interaction with atheists and agnostics on jwn.
i do enjoy learning more about their perspective.
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soft+gentle
yes avishai NC does some great writing (creativity at its best) but pls don't complain if we question your stereotypes, NC. These characters take on a life of their own and generate so much faith in them that it is hard to separate fact from fiction.
eidt: QCMR you are another atheist who seems to love generating the stereotype of believer as victim
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187
What is with abusive atheists?
by Fernando insorry folks, i know the "candace conti case" is where all our time attention should be for now.
i just had this much less important issue on my heart and wanted to make a quick note of it, as i am struggling with remembering all the details as clearly afterward.. although i am a non-religious believer and simple follower of jesus, i have had some constructive interaction with atheists and agnostics on jwn.
i do enjoy learning more about their perspective.
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soft+gentle
hey Fernanado, it is great to meet a non-religious believer. I understand what you mean about atheists ignoring what is commonly identified as manifestations of God in themselves. I would love to hear what atheists call these manifestations instead. Somehow the emphasis on reason and rationality alone, devoid of all the feelings associated with what makes us feeling people for example, does not do it for me. (I've only read the opening post so far)
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The Watchtower Punished: Society loses legal battle over child abuse case
by cedars init's taken a while, but i've finally managed to put up an article on this remarkable court case.. a link to my article is below:.
http://jwsurvey.org/general-information/the-watchtower-punished-society-loses-legal-battle-over-child-abuse-case.
i've tried very hard to make the article as factual as possible by reading and comparing the various documents available.
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soft+gentle
great article cedars.
I'm also very glad that Candace has her mum, barb and Joe supporting her.
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Letter I am writing to local Newspaper......
by tresdecu instill going back to correct grammer / spelling, but this is basically what i am writing to them.
it probably won't do any good, but you never know:.
thanks for taking the time to read this.
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soft+gentle
tresdecu - it is a great letter
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Jane Doe, you have our support... (Jane Doe vs WTB&TS)
by SweetBabyCheezits inmany moons ago, i questioned the legitimacy of the steven unthank case and/or his manner of relating the news on his website.
official court documents were difficult to locate (at least for some of us, and after a certain date) and my only direct source for information was unthank's own website, though later i heard from a poster who attended one of the hearings.
i had my hopes up for a major case against the wt, but the little info i could verify left me confused.
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soft+gentle
I am so thrilled with this victory Jane Doe/Candace. Your case highlights the WTS' malicious recklessness but as a small child you had to live through its cruelty first. And even after that you tried for years to get them to practice justice for vulnerable ones, those who have no helper, they did not listen and now you have brought justice to them.
I'm afraid hurbis is written in their hearts (WTS leaders that is) and the only way it will end is through consuming them.
Imo you won for alll of us and I am going out to celebrate this evening.
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Watchtower found guilty ruled to pay 7 million to 1 victim? wow
by yourmomma inis this recent?
http://www.silentlambs.org/oaklandlawsuit.htm.
i havent seen anyone post about it, the link has a pdf on it of the court documents, and it looks like the stamp is from 5/12 but its blurry.. .
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soft+gentle
wow wow wow
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Why Do You Believe Elders Have Special Spiritual Powers? To J.W.s visiting or droping by!
by Bubblegum Apotheosis into brothers and sisters passing by, a note to think about:.
your elders and ministerial servants are just men, not prophets, not appointed by holy spirit, they are human beings like you.. you attribute or impute some quality to us that does not exist, we are not any close to god than you are.
the training we received did not prepare us for the kinds of situations we were thrown into.
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soft+gentle
bubblegum
we had the "elders are glorious ones public talk" recently. how would you respond to this?