watchtower october 1, 2011 page 14 'did hitler receive letters of protest from church officials concerning the outrager perpetrated by the national socialists, or nazis?
there were some, but such letters were few and far between.
in the moscow archives, however, eberle found a file containing a number of letters sent to hitler by jehovah's witnesses..protesting against the conduct of the nazis.
Terry in your post 11532 you have not clarified that these words of Hitler were not in Mein Kampf but part of his final solution which came years later.
if 12,000–15,000 Jews were gassed, then "the sacrifice of millions of soldiers would not have been in vain,"
here are some scriptures that show that the world isn't about to end, even according to the bible!
i noticed most of these in my own reading, but this page brings them all together.
i don't believe in the coming system of things, though.. any comments welcome.. http://www.apocatastasis.net/prophecy/prophecy-system-of-things-.html.
sounds logical the quiet one ... and thanks for the links
here are some scriptures that show that the world isn't about to end, even according to the bible!
i noticed most of these in my own reading, but this page brings them all together.
i don't believe in the coming system of things, though.. any comments welcome.. http://www.apocatastasis.net/prophecy/prophecy-system-of-things-.html.
the quiet one, I was writing about my own wholely antagonistic attitude - my own attittude has changed to one of respect.
I was saying that matthew's gospel was written after 70 Ce in my post no 13. Rev I think was written even later. what internal evidence do you have that rev was written earlier than 70 ce?
here are some scriptures that show that the world isn't about to end, even according to the bible!
i noticed most of these in my own reading, but this page brings them all together.
i don't believe in the coming system of things, though.. any comments welcome.. http://www.apocatastasis.net/prophecy/prophecy-system-of-things-.html.
psac I think we are both missing each other's points but as you said its okay ;)
watchtower october 1, 2011 page 14 'did hitler receive letters of protest from church officials concerning the outrager perpetrated by the national socialists, or nazis?
there were some, but such letters were few and far between.
in the moscow archives, however, eberle found a file containing a number of letters sent to hitler by jehovah's witnesses..protesting against the conduct of the nazis.
the quiet one
I don't see antisemtism in Rutherford's letter or the 1934 yearbook quote. Both seem to be refuting that Jehovahs witnesses are funded by Jews, catholics, big business etc. Rutherford comes across as trying to negotiate a path of peaceful co-existence for Jehovahs witnesses in Germany and of trying to avoid conflict as much as possible.
Jehovahs witnesses have always spoken out against other religions and against materialism etc. But I would not class this as antisemitism which to me is racial hatred. Hitler and his party were guilty of antisemitism - Hitler thought the jews were not human and that they were parasites living off of other humans. Jehovahs witnesses do create much conflict by their religious intolerance so they are not against conflict in itself but where possible they do try their darndest to work with governments .
In reply to Terry's quotes from Ernest Helmreich 1979 I am stunned because the Catholic Church also suffered persecution under Hitler. The concordat was an attempt at negotiation for as peaceful a co-existence as possible on behalf of Catholics in Germany and elsewhere. And the truth is that many priests were sent to concentration camps and murdered. The Vatican was instrumental in saving many Jews particularly in Italy.
some more from wikipaedia....
The nature of the Nazi Party's relations with the Catholic Church is also complicated. Before Hitler rose to power, many Catholic priests and leaders vociferously opposed Nazism on the grounds of its incompatibility with Christian morals. After Hitler took over and rose to power, party membership was not forbidden anymore and the Catholic Church actively looked for opportunities to work together with the Nazi government. At his trial Franz von Papen said that until 1936 the Catholic Church hoped for a Christian alignment to the beneficial aspects he said they saw in national socialism. (This statement came after Pope Pius XII ended Von Papen's appointment as Papal chamberlain and ambassador to the Holy See, but before his restoration under Pope John XXIII.)
In 1937 Pope Pius XI issued the encyclicalMit brennender Sorge condemning Nazi ideology, notably the Gleichschaltung policy directed against religious influence upon education, as well as Nazi racism and antisemitism. Pius XI's encyclical Humani Generis Unitas was never published due to him dying before it could be issued, but the similar Summi Pontificatus was the first encyclical released by his successor (Pius XII), in October 1939. This encyclical strongly condemned both racism and totalitarianism, without the anti-Judaism present in Humani Generis Unitas. The massive Catholic opposition to the euthanasia programs led them to be quietly ended on 28 August 1941, (according to Spielvogel pp. 257–258) in contrast Catholics only at some occasions actively and openly protested Nazi anti-Semitism in any comparable way, except for several bishops and priests like bishop Clemens von Galen of Münster.
In Nazi Germany, all known political dissenters were imprisoned, and some German priests were sent to the concentration camps for their opposition, including the pastor of Berlin's Catholic Cathedral Bernhard Lichtenberg and the seminarian Karl Leisner. Hitler was never excommunicated by the Catholic Church and several Catholic bishops in Germany or Austria are recorded as encouraging prayers of support for "The Führer"; this despite the fact the original Reichskonkordat (1933) of Germany with the Holy See proscribed any active political participation by the priesthood.
Criticism also arose in that the Vatican pontificate headed by Pope Pius XI and Pope Pius XII had remained circumspect about the national-scale race hatred before 1937 (Mit brennender Sorge). In 1937, just before the publishing of the anti-Nazi encyclical, Eugenio Cardinal Pacelli in Lourdes, France condemned discrimination against Jews and the neopaganism of the Nazi régime. A statement by Pius XI on 8 September 1938 spoke of the "inadmissibility" of anti-semitism, but Pius XII is criticised by people like John Cornwell for being unspecific. Pius XI may have underestimated the degree that Hitler's ideas influenced the laity in light of hopes the Concordat would preserve Catholic influences among them. The evolution of the Vatican's understanding has faced criticism of weakness, slowness, or even culpability. On culpability this is perhaps clearest with regards to the German hierarchy as after the Concordat there was a radical reversal of the former episcopal condemnation of Nazism, according to Daniel Goldhagen and others. It is less certain in other cases. From the other extreme the Roman Catholic hierarchy in the Netherlands officially and formally condemned Nazism in 1941 and therefore faced violence and deportation of its priests, along with attacks upon monasteries and Catholic hospitals, and, the deportation of thousands of Jews to Auschwitz, who were hiding in the Catholic institutions, among them the famous Saint Edith Stein. Likewise, the Polish Roman Catholic hierarchy was violently attacked by the Nazis and saw thousands of its clerics sent to concentration camps or simply killed, a famous example of this being Father Maksymilian Kolbe. Most nations' hierarchy took a mixture of the two positions, oscillating between collaboration and active resistance.
watchtower october 1, 2011 page 14 'did hitler receive letters of protest from church officials concerning the outrager perpetrated by the national socialists, or nazis?
there were some, but such letters were few and far between.
in the moscow archives, however, eberle found a file containing a number of letters sent to hitler by jehovah's witnesses..protesting against the conduct of the nazis.
to be fair during the early years Hitler did not reveal the extreme measures he was later to take against the Jews. Indeed when he found that his anti-jewish stance was not as welcome amongst Germans as he'd hoped he tended to foreground more palatable ideology during his rise to power and during the early part of his government. Rutherford's letters relate to this early part of Hitler's 3rd reich.
are there any letters from rutherford to Hitler from later on?
band on the run your grandmother was a brave woman
here are some scriptures that show that the world isn't about to end, even according to the bible!
i noticed most of these in my own reading, but this page brings them all together.
i don't believe in the coming system of things, though.. any comments welcome.. http://www.apocatastasis.net/prophecy/prophecy-system-of-things-.html.
psac
Here Jesus warns not only about WHEN the fall of Jerusalem will happen ( within this generation) BUT that even heaven and earth will pass away BUT about THAT, only GOd knows.
sorry I cannot see this in the context of the verses nor do scholars who have examined the section in detail. Jesus was using hyperbole when he said "heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away".
here are some scriptures that show that the world isn't about to end, even according to the bible!
i noticed most of these in my own reading, but this page brings them all together.
i don't believe in the coming system of things, though.. any comments welcome.. http://www.apocatastasis.net/prophecy/prophecy-system-of-things-.html.
the quiet one
Soft+gentle- What truth do jw's have, specifically?
To Jehovahs witnesses all of their beliefs are truth. You ask for something specific. well what we have been discussing is quite specific so I need go no further than this topic to make my point. For me part of recognising that they have truth is that I can show a respectful attitude to them instead of a wholely antagonistic attitude and this is where I am coming from. If I am with them I can relax and enjoy myself along with them remaining objective but alert to their sense of value and purpose and to their sense of the end being imminent.
here are some scriptures that show that the world isn't about to end, even according to the bible!
i noticed most of these in my own reading, but this page brings them all together.
i don't believe in the coming system of things, though.. any comments welcome.. http://www.apocatastasis.net/prophecy/prophecy-system-of-things-.html.
thats okay the quiet one
technically I am a JW and am now taking a new look at them and admitting that they do have truth. This is quite un-nerving for me ... that Jehovahs witnesses are quite solidly based in their theology from an historical perspective and know their bible so well. they also are spot on in interpreting human experience. I have an ambivalent relationship with them - lol
psac, what you are saying is not true as Jesus said that humans could identify the time of the end using the blueprint he provided. they would not know the day or the hour as this only the father knows.
Queenie C
i was supposed to go to a judical meeting on sat but i told the elders i wasnt going but they held it anyway.
its going to be announced that im going to be disfellowshipped at the weekend.
hate the fact my parents wont talk to me anymore.
I'm so sorry disfellowshipping will affect you so badly. Is there any way to stop them disfellowshipping you? perhaps ringing the elders before it is too late and saying that you are seeking legal advice because disfellowshipping will affect your abiltiy to continue working? You can say that you anticipate that it will affect you mentally and emotionally to the extent that you may have to give up working altogther. I think that in your case it is better to fade than to allow them to disfellowship you without a fight.
from what I have been reading here sometimes saying you are seeking legal advice stops the disfellowshipping process.
Queenie C
