i was having a discussion elsewhere on the internet about why people believe and why people don't believe in god.. i am of the opinion that people believe in god, not for evidential reasons, but instead because they have some emotional feeling that god exists.
no amount of logic will make someone like this stop believing (any more than trying to talk someone out of being in love).
the same goes for athiests.
bttt
authenticity itself, however, is indeterminate. So rather than being prescriptive I am trying to suggest that there is huge interest and variety about why a person is what they are. Wiki has an amazing article about authenticity - afraid cannot link it in.
since he disregarded the elders' "encouragement" to turn down the fellowship offer from harvard, he's being deleted as a ministerial servant.. he leaves in august.. i'm so happy for and proud of him!.
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no priviliges=more time for successful study. congratulations.
alex, our youngest graduated cum laude from the university of washington today with a bachelor's in environmental science and a minor in quantitative analysis.
he has a job in his field.
he and his fiance, who also graduated today (biology) are getting married july 1. she's starting a phd program at berkeley in august, so they're moving.
great news jeffT
i was having a discussion elsewhere on the internet about why people believe and why people don't believe in god.. i am of the opinion that people believe in god, not for evidential reasons, but instead because they have some emotional feeling that god exists.
no amount of logic will make someone like this stop believing (any more than trying to talk someone out of being in love).
the same goes for athiests.
good morning geneM. what is fascinating is that both sides illuminate indeterminacy. Atheists imo cannot logically prove that there is no god and believers also demonstrate the problems of believing in God. I don't think it is just about feeling (although this is what atheists on that long thread that I think is going to reach 100 pages) seem to be suggesting. Rather, by suggesting that belief in God it is all about feeling and then from there suggesting that it is self induced, atheists illuminate their problematic position. For example if is all about feelings that can be self induced then atheists (at least the ones you describe above) would be able to self induce wouldn't they? But instead atheists appear to lose this faculty entirely once they stop believing.
Here is another problem - the difference between evidential reasons understood as producing cold hard facts and evidential reasons understood as producing authenticity. I wonder if it may be possible to understand the indeterminacy aspect of belief and non belief from the point of view of creating authenticity in one's life? I like this way of articulating the problem because rather than suggesting that belief and non belief in God is all about feeling only, it would perhaps open a dialogue that would address how authenticity and complete incarnation go hand in hand for both sides. Not sure if this makes sense?
i wish there were more jw's resisting the extreme elements within the religion.
i beleive there are many who know some of the things they hear and read are whack, but stay because they think it's still the group god has chosen.
but there are ways to voice your opinion without being too vocal or disassociating:.
hermano there are many ways to keep aware of helping individuals not feel so alone.
If a young sister sits there at the meeting reading her kindle during the talk or if a teenager sits in the foyer with his headphones on it is obvious that they are there under some sort of duress and that they probably are very isolated and being pressured in some way. Plus they will be objects of fear and dislike at the KH.
Less obvious are those who don't attend all meetings but one thing we can be sure of and that is that they will be pressured to attend more meetings. They may be feeling guilty and isolated.
But at the end of the day it is hard to know exactly what is going on without prying but my suggestion is to develop the habit of trying to converse with everyone but particularly those who seem isolated and the conversations can be about world affairs, sport, entertainment etc. I would not suggest being committed to deliberately following up on such ones though and suggest rather that one would need to be the kind of person who is open to whatever outcome happens - for example if they become stronger in the truth then so be it. It is their life after all and it is important that they do not feel that they are being pressured in any way. On the other hand if there is an answering spirit within someone then they may not feel so alone even if it is only for that moment in time and of course this may never become known to you. Having been controlled for most of adult life I would never try to control another person but would simply try to be respectful and tolerant whilst encouraging confidence in the world outside the KH.
cedars:.
your original thread got too far off track so i decided to refresh it for my question.. i'm wondering what you think about anthony flew (rip).
incidently to james_woods (if you read this thread):.
thanks binadub - I'll try and watch that video.
ok folks, it's that time of year.
school's out, the kids are running around (well actually staring at the video screen), the days are longer and the night are cool.
with the lazy hot days of summer ahead what's on your reading list?.
just finishing Michael Connelly's The Poet
http://sunearthday.nasa.gov/webcasts/nasaedge/.
fantastic ozbrad
i wish there were more jw's resisting the extreme elements within the religion.
i beleive there are many who know some of the things they hear and read are whack, but stay because they think it's still the group god has chosen.
but there are ways to voice your opinion without being too vocal or disassociating:.
good points Hermano. And I know witnesses who are resisting in ways you have mentioned. It is very said to see families blacklisted (in the sense that privileges are witheld from them) because of going to university but it is truly wonderful when they finish their education. Young people are resisting getting baptized early and then not getting baptized at all.
We don't clap when talks are disgraceful and believe me they often are. I also tell everyone who asks that I am enjoying my education.
Imo the society has had its golden age and its silver age is ending too. the silver age is the age of resistance to empire building in most cultures. I believe that the WTS is entering its bronze age - the spiritual food is lacklustre and unappetising, most elders are sick and elderly
given we are not going to live forever, none of us knows when our time is up, and meaning isn't handed to us on a plate?
how do we go about inscribing our lives with meaning within unknown constraints of time and resources?.
have you got a strategy?
when I am in the park I see lots of benches dedicated to those who have passed away. Some have lived a long life and some have lived a very short life. A few messages say how much so and so enjoyed this spot or this park. From this I have sort of developed the habit of imaging my life from the point of view of those who have passed this way and those who will in the future enjoying the things I enjoy and facing the challenges I face.
I do hope hope to continue to accomplish, fight and develop what I have - my gifts that is using these to change what I can - but I recognise that in common with those who have gone before and those who wil come after me, that there are things I cannot change and towards these I want to maintain as much grace as I can because putting up resistance saps energy and is futile.
