Moxy

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Posts by Moxy

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  60

  My JW Mothers' Words Of "Love"

  by Ranchette in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well, i just received a letter from my mom and i dont know how to describe my feelings at this time.

  i thought id share parts of it with you and see what yall think.

  i will delete names and add my own words in parenthesis to describe whom shes talking about.. after a few lines of small talk she says this..........i do want to tell you, since (you and your husband) have rejected the truth, i am so glad (your son) is not old enough to join or be drafted into the military.

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  Moxy

  thx for sharing. i feel for you. assure her of your unconditional love, is my advice.

  mox
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  36

  Blood, Watchtower, Deceit, Aretaeus

  by hawkaw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower provides a comment on the writings of aretaeus in the pamphlet how can blood save your life?

  (copyright 2000).

  in part 2 - titled blood--vital for life, what of using blood as medicine?

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  Moxy

  i should say thanks for putting this together for us too, hawkaw. its well presented. apologies, i didnt realize the brochure was published on the WT website or i wouldve looked it up myself.

  from the society's brochure, i see the point being this: early christian writers wouldve been familiar with the medical use of blood and so one cannot make the argument that when they were condemning the use of blood, they could not have had its noble use as a remedy in mind, since they were unfamiliar with it. presumably the implication is that since blood was in common use as medicine, the christian writers wouldve explicitly mentioned it if they condoned it. since they didnt, we can conclude its medical use fell under the divine prohibition.

  using the original Aretaeus quote, i gather you are making 2 points about the mention of the blood treatment:
  1) Aretaeus was refering to the practice as a fringe home remedy, not as a common, respected medical treatment.
  2) Both Aretaeus and 1st century apologists were objecting to the method of extracting blood, rather than the practice in and of itself.

  if i understand this correctly, i think i would say the 2nd point is stronger than the first. surely, these unusual home remedies, or "old wives' tales," were a much more prominent part of everyday life in roman times than today. Aretaues and others like him, were fighting an uphill battle in trying to document the relative merits of these different treatments and legitimacize them. Clearly the scientific method did not exist yet it any repsectable form. Aretaeus' own, more 'respected' treatments for epilepsy are pretty laughable too. (eg. abstain from sex since it LOOKS like an epileptic seizure - lol.) So, i dont see that the treatment's being a fringe practice greatly alters the society's argument, which is that the practice was KNOWN. for example, if you to meet the apostles and say, 'hey boys, this business with the abstain from blood and all, does this apply to blood used as medicine?' would they have said, 'blood as medicine? what the gehenna are you talking about?' no, they probably had heard of it. i see the point the society is making here to be more about the popularity of blood use, rather than its legitimacy.

  the second point is better because it provides an obvious explanation for condemning the roman use of blood as medicine: it was barbaric and immoral. what aretaeus was refering to was obviously not a clinical use of blood by removing donor blood from a live individual and ingesting it. it was a greedy and desperate need to try anything to remove a terrible affliction. this is the impression i get from aretaues' quote, and especially tertullian's. we can imagine an individual rushing onto the scene of a spectator execution and hungrily squeezing what blood they could from the freshly killed victim, possibly in their final death-throes. now ANY peace-loving person would object to that, no matter what they think of the use of blood. the society's argument that the practice was well-known loses strength if the practice was ALSO inextricably connected to the love of violence.

  well, those are just my thoughts. hope that makes some sense.

  mox
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  30

  THIS got WT Leaders thrown in Jail

  by Tallyman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how many of you were aware that watchtower leaders were .

  charged with, tried and convicted of sedition.

  during world war i ?.

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  Moxy

  Macmillan's book Faith on the March included a humorous little anecdote where he was trying to finish a tennis game in the penitentiary while rutherford kept bugging him about the WTS's board re-election. the account was repeated in other publications (dont recall if 75 yb, proclaimers or wt)

  mox
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  36

  Blood, Watchtower, Deceit, Aretaeus

  by hawkaw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower provides a comment on the writings of aretaeus in the pamphlet how can blood save your life?

  (copyright 2000).

  in part 2 - titled blood--vital for life, what of using blood as medicine?

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  Moxy

  hawh: would you mind including more of the quote from the brochure? its not clear exactly what point the society was making and how the misleading nature of the quote impacts their argument.

  mox
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  30

  THIS got WT Leaders thrown in Jail

  by Tallyman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how many of you were aware that watchtower leaders were .

  charged with, tried and convicted of sedition.

  during world war i ?.

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  Moxy

  little known fact:

  on the cover of the paper back version of the finished mystery, words appear to the effect, that the reader can attach a stamp, and drop the book of in the mail and the postmaster will have it sent to the soldiers on the front.

  been a while since ive held one in my hands, so cant remember the exact wording but easy to see where someone might get the impression the publication was seditious.

  mox
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  21

  The Day After Armageddon

  by Tatiana in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the day after armageddon.

  hey, maybe it won't be so bad after all!.

  april.

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  Moxy

  what the heck IS that?? its definitely montreal, but i never heard of anything like that. is this like that naked mile in michigan? or one of those modern conceptual peices of art that that guy is always getting arrested for?

  mox
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  1

  Of dinosaurs and babies

  by Moxy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i had mistakenly made a comment about the flood picture in the original edition of the bible story book showing a dinosaur.

  after i made it, i remembered that it wasnt another edition of the book, but another instance of the same pic in another publication, the enjoy life brochure.

  lets compare and discuss:.

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  Moxy

  i had mistakenly made a comment about the flood picture in the original edition of the bible story book showing a dinosaur. after i made it, i remembered that it wasnt another edition of the book, but another instance of the same pic in another publication, the Enjoy Life brochure. lets compare and discuss:

  heres the Enjoy Life pic:

  heres the Bible Story pic (cant scan the binding without cutting up the pages which i dont really wanna do)

  
  

  now i had always just assumed that the Enjoy Life was the original pic and the Bible Story one was altered because of an obvious oldtimers relic, DINOSAURS in the flood! heres a bit of a blow-up:

  this fellow in the foreground is easy to make out and i dont know what else he could be but a kind of Tyranosaurus, altho comically small in scale, compared to the unfortunate fellow next to him. farther on, theres a glimpse of another beast thats harder to make out:

  but in the original, it looks most like the head and neck of a brontosaurus-type beast. (what happened to the aquatic dinosaurs, anyways??) There's also a bunch of nondescript detritus along the middle that doesnt appear in the Bible Story pic.

  Ok, so now heres the question:

  which came first and why? the Enjoy Life brochure has a later publication date (1982) than the Bible Stories (1978) altho the Bible Stories has later reprinted im sure, because i distinctly remember the original using an crappy pre-four-colour printing method, but i dont have the original and its not mentioned in the copyright. So we're left with 2 choices. Either, somebody wanted to spruce up the original photo with some more creatues and was so far behind on his palaeontology that he figured he could throw in some dinsaurs and there was no problem. i find it far more likely that the dinsosaurs were removed from the original but then were left with this heart wrenching image of the woman on the rock clutching her infant! did someone ADD that into the childrens version, figuring they needed some disturbing images to scare these little tykes straight?! either way, i find the puzzle of these altered images baffling.

  mox
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  9

  San Diego, CA October 7 Supplementary Meeting

  by AMNESIAN in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  word began circulating yesterday that the october 7th event scheduled for qualcomm stadium (where chargers football team plays) might be cancelled due to problems already created by nfl's need to re-schedule aborted games as a result of terrorist attacks.

  mind you, there has been no official announcement but word is circulating---not among r&f but among elders who, of course, are yakking.. odd, i recall a time when the society was so efficient that it would've already arranged for and been announcing contingency plans and replacement locations before any such buzz could hit the streets---especially since the event is less than 2 weeks away and many have had to make out-of-town lodging arrangements.. this being reported anywhere else as yet?.

  -amnesian

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  Moxy

  true, the badge card recall was a bit odd. but the paranoia was certainly not unprecedented. and they have been fighting a losing battle against the 'street buzz' for a few years now, what with email and all. in this case tho, im imagining they announced the meeting at Qualcomm and then the SDC released an updated sched with oct 7 in use and then, well, any joe can put 2 and 2 together. hard to stay ahead of that. but yes, in general, i agree that the street buzz is gaining an edge over the 'official' channels.

  mox
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  9

  San Diego, CA October 7 Supplementary Meeting

  by AMNESIAN in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  word began circulating yesterday that the october 7th event scheduled for qualcomm stadium (where chargers football team plays) might be cancelled due to problems already created by nfl's need to re-schedule aborted games as a result of terrorist attacks.

  mind you, there has been no official announcement but word is circulating---not among r&f but among elders who, of course, are yakking.. odd, i recall a time when the society was so efficient that it would've already arranged for and been announcing contingency plans and replacement locations before any such buzz could hit the streets---especially since the event is less than 2 weeks away and many have had to make out-of-town lodging arrangements.. this being reported anywhere else as yet?.

  -amnesian

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  Moxy

  im sure it is. i mentioned this problem yesterday in a post. apparently the arrangements here were curtailed at least, from a large major league sports stadium to a smaller one. lets cut the society some slack here tho. its not everyday stuff like this happens. everyones schedules have been thrown for a loop.

  mox
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  21

  Sunday Meeting 9/23/01

  by peaceloveharmony in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry all, this is quite long.....and of course, nothing new.

  but i found it interesting...i've been out 9 years and this all sounds eerily similar, like i'd heard this bs all before...... ------------------.

  opening song #91, being taught by jehovah.

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  Moxy

  say harmony. one thing i just noticed is you didnt mention the WTC attacks anywhere. were these not brought up?

  i went to my meeting on sunday too (out of sympathy support for you ) and despite the unrelated subjects (PT was "Do You Put Your Trust in Science or the Bible" and the Abraham WT) the events of the past 2 weeks were frequently mentioned. usually in the context of, 'the world is becoming increasingly violent and unsafe and people are fearful of the future.'

  id be surprised if the CO did not mention it.

  another interesting point you might have missed in the WT study was the explanation of the old 430-yr teaching of the exodus, required to fix the bible chronological inconsistencies. it goes a little like this in the WT:

  q) when did abraham cross the euphrates?
  a) evidently exactly 430 years before the exodus, to the very day in fact.
  q) how do we know that the 430 years started with the crossing of the euphrates?
  a) because that what evidently happened 430 years beforehand.

  an absolutely circular and untenable interpretation. a russelian relic.

  mox